Kathleen R.: You know I think that something that people I think are starting to talk about now, but I feel like women don't understand how difficult it is after 40 to have a kid. And I feel like we all are just like, "Oh, look at Halle Berry." And no one really talks about what that looks like you know. Let's be totally frank. They didn't just get pregnant, it's not possible, If I was to go back and do it all over again, I would not have waited so long, but I did, and I wasn't ready to have a second for a very long time.
Speaker 2: You're listening to the MILF Podcast. This is the show where we talk about motherhood and sexuality with amazing women with fascinating stories to share on the joys of being a milf. Now, here's your host the milfiest milf I know Jennifer Tracy.
Jennifer Tracy: Hey guys, welcome back to the show. This is MILF Podcast, the show where we talked about motherhood, entrepreneurship, sexuality and everything in between. I'm Jennifer Tracy your host. It is the last day of February 2019, I cannot believe it. I can't believe how fast the first two months of the year went. It's so true, the older I get the faster time goes. Do you remember being a kid ... And I mean, I have a 9 and a half year old so like for him spring break seems so far away and I'm like, "Dude, it's going to be here in like five seconds." He can't grasp it 'cause time to him is so much longer because he's only been around for nine and a half years. I mean, and now that I'm older, it goes so quickly. Sometimes it still goes slowly but most of the time flies.
Jennifer Tracy: So here we are, today is the last day for you guys to get in your iTunes reviews for me to donate $25 per iTunes review to Lumos. They can be found at wearelumos.org if you want to find out more about what they do. Or if you want to donate to them directly, please do that. It's a beautiful organization that they're geared towards ending children's institutions in orphanages, the need for them at all. So they want to give resources and programs to families so that they can stay together. J. K. Rowling is the founder. It's pretty badass.
Jennifer Tracy: So that's that. I also wanted to remind you guys that our rating is explicit only because on iTunes you can only have ... There's only two ratings. There's either explicit or not explicit and my team and I decided to change it to explicit yet last month, earlier this year that's flying by, because occasionally we do say the F word or shit or talk about sex. And so we wanted you guys to just be aware of that in case you're listening to us on your way to pick up the kids from school or ... Yeah. So that's why we have the explicit rating, is it's just basically to know that occasionally that happens, some episodes more than others. Some episodes there won't be a single curse word or any dirty dirty talk but sometimes there's a lot of it, so it varies from guest to guest.
Jennifer Tracy: Anyway, I also just want to take a moment to thank all of my beautiful listeners for participating with me in this 28 days of self-love challenge that I've been running on my Instagram. It's been so fun and it's been so hard. Like I started doing this and I was like, "oh, that's easy. Just post one thing a day." I was kind of arrogant about it to be honest. Not arrogant but just flippant I guess. I just thought, "Oh, no big deal." And it's hard. Like many days I got to the end of the day and I said, "Oh shit. I have not posted anything today. I have to keep this commitment and be an example." So I'd be scrambling to do something which is good because it's part of the exercise. It's like, "No, you have to do it every day for 28 days."
Jennifer Tracy: But it was hard and it also made me realize how you know I really talk a lot about self-care and making time for myself but it's really hard for me to do it on a daily basis. I can do it when my kid is with his dad, I can do it when my kid's at school. But for the most part, balancing all the things I'm balancing, like we all are, it's really hard to make a distinct effort to create something for myself, even if it only takes 5 minute. It's really been an interesting exercise for me. So I want to thank you guys who've joined me or who've at least witnessed fumble through it. More stuff like that. I don't know what the next experiment's going to be but something different.
Jennifer Tracy: Anyway, so I want to introduce today's guest. Today's guest is a mom that I met when our kids started kindergarten together. And she's an actress, she was on the original 90210 and she is lovely and brilliant and she has a lot of depth and insight. And I just was so honored to have her on the show and to get to go to her office and interview her. So without further ado, here is my interview with Kathleen Robertson. I hope you guys enjoy it.
Jennifer Tracy: Hi Kathleen.
Kathleen R.: Hi. This is very weird. I feel weird talking to you in this-
Jennifer Tracy: I know. In the headphones and the ... Yeah, I know. With my new ... I've got this giant mic stands now.
Kathleen R.: Fancy.
Jennifer Tracy: It's very official.
Kathleen R.: It's very fancy.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. So we're here in your writer's studio which is very exciting.
Kathleen R.: I don't know. It doesn't feel exciting.
Jennifer Tracy: It feels writerly. There's writing all on the walls and everything, I love this. So what's HTP list stand for?
Kathleen R.: HTP is a book that I recently optioned called How to Party with an Infant. Do you know that book?
Jennifer Tracy: No but I need it.
Kathleen R.: It's a pretty good book, yeah. It's this book where-
Jennifer Tracy: I mean, I don't need it, I'm not having anymore babies but I just meant like that sounds interesting just to read.
Kathleen R.: Yeah, it's this author Kaui Hart Hemmings who did The Possibilities and The Descendants with George Cloone. So it's her book.
Jennifer Tracy: And are you turning it into a movie?
Kathleen R.: I am going to attempt to turn it into a TV show.
Jennifer Tracy: That sounds awesome.
Kathleen R.: And these are all possible producer partners.
Jennifer Tracy: Awesome. Very cool.
Kathleen R.: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: Very cool.
Kathleen R.: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: So we will circle back to your writing career but I want to start from the beginning. So you are from Canada.
Kathleen R.: I am. I'm from Hamilton, Ontario.
Jennifer Tracy: Born and raised.
Kathleen R.: Born and raised, yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: And you grew up with siblings?
Kathleen R.: Yeah, I've two older sisters.
Jennifer Tracy: And what did your parents do?
Kathleen R.: My mom was a stay-at-home mom and my dad was an interior designer.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh, I didn't know that. Well, that makes sense. That's where you get your style from.
Kathleen R.: Yeah. Well, I don't know about style but ... Yeah. My dad was ... It was actually kind of ... It was interesting because he was an interior designer but we lived in the Steel City. So there wasn't a huge demand for interior designers in a pretty blue collar place. It's like an hour outside of Toronto and it's interesting now looking back on it that that's what he-
Jennifer Tracy: Chose.
Kathleen R.: ... did in such an environment that would not be very super open and receptive to that.
Jennifer Tracy: So how did he work? Did he have to go out of town for work a lot or ...
Kathleen R.: He worked for a store for a long time and then he had his own store where he would like ... I mean, the weekends were spent in going to antique markets and looking for stuff.
Jennifer Tracy: Did you go with him?
Kathleen R.: Always, yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh, that's cool.
Kathleen R.: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: And they're still there in Canada?
Kathleen R.: Yeah, my whole family is still there.
Jennifer Tracy: Okay.
Kathleen R.: I'm the only one that got out, that left.
Jennifer Tracy: So you born and raised, went through school there and then what happened?
Kathleen R.: Well, I always sort of knew ... I started acting really young, like-
Jennifer Tracy: You were a child actor?
Kathleen R.: ... scary young. Like I just was talking to somebody about it the other day and my 10-year old son William. So I was 10 when I started.
Jennifer Tracy: Wow.
Kathleen R.: So when I look at him, I can't believe that I was that age when I started being a working professional being.
Jennifer Tracy: And that feeling of like, "Aargh, I can't believe it," do you feel that that is because you just think, "My God." Of like the pressure that you were under or the work environment that you're under, even as a child or ...
Kathleen R.: Yeah. I would never let him do that.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Kathleen R.: Never. I mean, it's just a lot. I mean, it's like ... You have your son same age so it's add on to everything that you're dealing now with Blooms and then add on to it. Oh yeah, and you're going to be going out on auditions and being told and being told you're not enough of this and you're not enough of this and you're no ... I mean, I can't even wrap my head around that.
Jennifer Tracy: On top of just-
Kathleen R.: Of a 10-year old.
Jennifer Tracy: ... basic development. So when you were that age and experiencing that, how did your mom help you, guide you through that?
Kathleen R.: I mean, my parents ... Nobody in my family was in the entertainment industry so nobody really ... I don't think anybody really realized it at the time that it was what it was. And my parents always would say to me, "You don't have to do this if this isn't ..." Like there wasn't really a pressure. It wasn't like I grew up with stage parents and they were like, "We want you to do this." They were always sort of like, "If this is ... This should be fun and if it's not fun there's no reason to do it." It's complicated.
Jennifer Tracy: You had the bug.
Kathleen R.: It's complicated, yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: So what kind of work was it at that age?
Kathleen R.: Like the first thing I did when I was 10 was I did a movie for the National Film Board of Canada which was called Left Out and it was a movie about a girl who's parents were both ... Her dad lost his job and it was basically an educational movie about growing up in poverty.
Jennifer Tracy: Wow.
Kathleen R.: Yeah. And then I did a lot of stuff for the ... Like Norman Jewison has a film institute and I did a lot of sort of movies for them. And I never was a commercial. I never really did commercials, I was always sort of weird little movies. And then I did a series all through high school called Maniac Mansion which was pretty [crosstalk 00:10:59] It was based on a video game produced by George Lucas. It was like a family show, it was all the SETV people were in it. Like it was Martin Short and Catherine O'Hara and Eugene Levy was the producer and Joe Flaherty and there were all kind of involved in writing in it. And I played the daughter. I was like the 16-year old daughter.
Jennifer Tracy: That's fun.
Kathleen R.: Yeah. So I did that all through high school so I was kind of tutored.
Jennifer Tracy: It's like you were not in a regular school.
Kathleen R.: I was but I never really went.
Jennifer Tracy: Got it.
Kathleen R.: Because I was always working. So they would have teachers come to set to help me.
Jennifer Tracy: And how was that like socially for you? Was it challenging or you just didn't know any different?
Kathleen R.: Yeah. And I was sort of ... Yeah, I didn't know any different and I think it was unlike I think I feel like if you were doing that in Los Angeles would be a very different experience but nobody knew what I was really ... Like it was sort of a weird thing where nobody really got it and I would kind of be gone for two weeks and then I'd be back in school and they'd be like, "What were you doing?" And I would never tell anybody. I always sort of keep it on the down low 'cause I never wanted people to think of me differently or view me as being ... It was weird. I mean, I definitely had a lot of-
Jennifer Tracy: You felt like you had a secret.
Kathleen R.: For sure.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Kathleen R.: Which is weird. Instead-
Jennifer Tracy: Interesting.
Kathleen R.: ... of being just like, "Yeah."
Jennifer Tracy: Right. Because it was so different there in that time and space. It wasn't like used to like in LA.
Kathleen R.: Yeah, in LA you would just be [crosstalk 00:12:21] or shooting a Disney show or ...
Jennifer Tracy: Sure. So then you moved to LA or you moved to New York or-
Kathleen R.: Yes. So I moved to LA right after that show ended and I was ... God, I was even 18, 19.
Jennifer Tracy: Wow.
Kathleen R.: I know. Didn't know anybody, didn't have a Green Card. Came here totally illegally, life was living in an apartment, going out on auditions and then if I got something, then they would say, "Okay, you don't have work papers so you can't do this job." And I'd say, "Shit, aargh." So I had to keep waiting until I got a job that was big enough that they would allow me to get a Green Card and that was 90210. So once I got that, then they went, "Oh, well this is a real show and a real job and a serious regular thing so we're going to get you a Green Card." So then I got to stay.
Jennifer Tracy: Wow. And how long were you on the show?
Kathleen R.: I did 99 episodes.
Jennifer Tracy: Wow.
Kathleen R.: Which I think is so funny. Not 100 ...
Jennifer Tracy: 99.
Kathleen R.: I got out just before 100. And that's so funny. Yeah, 99.
Jennifer Tracy: That's so great.
Kathleen R.: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: And what was that experience like? I mean, that was pretty much right after you moved here, right?
Kathleen R.: Yeah. I mean, it was about six months or seven months after.
Jennifer Tracy: So you were very young.
Kathleen R.: I was very young. Yeah, I was very young and the show was massive when I came on to it. I mean, it was like midstream, it wasn't the beginning, it wasn't ... It was like at the sort of height of it. I mean, they were on the cover of Rolling Stone when I was starting. So crazy. I mean, it was literally like overnight I went from being a girl from Hamilton who was driving a beat up Geo Prizm to having a bodyguard.
Jennifer Tracy: Yes. Wow. You had a bodyguard.
Kathleen R.: Yeah. We all did.
Jennifer Tracy: Really?
Kathleen R.: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jennifer Tracy: Because ... Why? Teenage girls would attack you guys or just anybody.
Kathleen R.: I mean, it's crazy.
Jennifer Tracy: Fans.
Kathleen R.: Yeah. There was a lot of weird ... All of a sudden it was like guys in prison contacting you and sending you things and-
Jennifer Tracy: You're kidding.
Kathleen R.: Oh yeah. Yeah, it was a big, big show.
Jennifer Tracy: I'm so naïve. And even I will say, this is not a comparison at all, I just I've been wanting to share about this 'cause it's happened a couple of times and I'm sure this happens to everybody, just celebrity, not celebrity. But I have an Instagram account for the show and occasionally I'll get a DM request, right? And I look and sometimes it's really interesting, I've made some friends on there, women that have approached me. In fact, next week's guest ... Not next week's guest ... Yes, next week being the week after this not after your recording week. But anyway, Derick will edit that 'cause it doesn't make sense. Contacted me through there.
Jennifer Tracy: And in any case, just yesterday, I was ... Oh my gosh, I just see your Biofreeze.
Kathleen R.: Oh yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh my God, that's the best stuff.
Kathleen R.: It's the best, yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: Your Biofreeze, your essential oils, your ASAP or however you say that.
Kathleen R.: My face spray.
Jennifer Tracy: Your face spray.
Kathleen R.: And this is my most favorite thing in the world.
Jennifer Tracy: What is this?
Kathleen R.: For headaches.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh, peppermint.
Kathleen R.: It's the best.
Jennifer Tracy: How do you say this? Saje?
Kathleen R.: Saje. It's a Canadian company actually.
Jennifer Tracy: Saje. Do you like how I just tried to implement-
Kathleen R.: Saje.
Jennifer Tracy: It's Saje. Is this Saje?
Kathleen R.: It's honestly the best thing for headaches. It's better than ... Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: I love it.
Kathleen R.: Peppermint Halo Saje and it's [inaudible 00:15:40].
Jennifer Tracy: So my listeners don't think I'm as stupid as I actually am, it's spelled S-A-J-E.
Kathleen R.: S-A-J-E.
Jennifer Tracy: So that's why I said Saje.
Kathleen R.: Saje.
Jennifer Tracy: So what was I saying? Oh, so anyway, just to go back to the ... I'll sometimes get DMs from a total stranger, a dude with some weird username and it's like, "Send nudes." And I always laugh. I'm like, "Does that work for you bro?" Like it's so funny as if I'm just going to be like, "Oh yeah-
Kathleen R.: "Oh, let me take my clothes off. Hang on a second. Just give me a minute here."
Jennifer Tracy: That's so funny. So I mean, and I'm nobody so I can't even imagine at that time. So wow, how long did you have a bodyguard like that? Or how often did you have a bodyguard? Was it ...
Kathleen R.: I mean, it was like ebb and flow. Like there would be periods when something would happen and then they would want to have somebody like literally ... I was living by myself in a condo and there was a period where they had somebody sitting outside of my door waiting for ... I mean, it's crazy when I think about it now because I so would never ... it's-
Jennifer Tracy: It's hard to fathom.
Kathleen R.: ... trippy. It's trippy. I mean, it was definitely like a ... I remember going on hiatus to Italy and going to the Sistine Chapel. They had to take me out because it was like people were-
Jennifer Tracy: Crowds of people.
Kathleen R.: ... hysterical about 90210. It was like crazy like ... Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: You couldn't even enjoy your vacation.
Kathleen R.: No. It was ridiculous when I think about it now, especially.
Jennifer Tracy: Wow.
Kathleen R.: Yeah, and like I said, I was just like a kid from Hamilton.
Jennifer Tracy: Right.
Kathleen R.: Going, "Oh. People really like this show." I mean even now, still people are like ... People are fascinated with it.
Jennifer Tracy: Sure. I know there was a new reboot of it, I didn't follow up with that but-
Kathleen R.: Yeah, I didn't either. But that was like my first American job. So it was a really heightened period for sure.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. And while you're finding your footing in a new country and at that age and that sort of coming of age, age.
Kathleen R.: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: So at what point ... When did you meet your husband? Was it during that time?
Kathleen R.: No.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh no.
Kathleen R.: So I met Chris ... We've been together 17 years.
Jennifer Tracy: Wow, congratulations.
Kathleen R.: Which is crazy, yeah. Our 15-year wedding anniversary is this year. So I met him actually when I was filming a movie and of his best friends was the producer. And so we met through him on a night where neither one of us wanted to go to this ... There was like a party and I was, "I'm tired. I don't want to go. I've been working all day." And something at the last minute was like, "Just go." And he was the same. He wasn't going to go and like, "I'm just going to go." And if we hadn't gone to that party, we would have never met. It's crazy when you think about life that way.
Jennifer Tracy: And at that time you were still just fully pursuing acting?
Kathleen R.: Yes, 100%.
Jennifer Tracy: And had you-
Kathleen R.: I was ...
Jennifer Tracy: Go ahead.
Kathleen R.: When I met him I was doing Scary Movie 2.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh right.
Kathleen R.: That was how I met him.
Jennifer Tracy: I see.
Kathleen R.: The producer of that movie was one of his best friends.
Jennifer Tracy: Got it.
Kathleen R.: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: Okay. And had you been writing? Had you always written? Like did you write as a child? Was it in you or was it something that came later?
Kathleen R.: I always was a writer. I started very young always journaling and always doing short stories and never really about it more than that. Like just knew that it was something I loved to do and it was always my therapy. Like anything would happen, I was stressed, I was concerned, I was anxiety, I was this, I would just ... That was always my therapy. And then after William was born, I started ... I would always write stuff and just throw it in the drawer. Like I would be off on location and I'd be like, "I'm going to write a movie about such and such." And I would write it and just kind of be like, "Yeah, whatever. I'm throwing it in the drawer and never let anyone read it."
Kathleen R.: And then after William was born I started really feeling also like, "I don't want to be going away on location. I don't want to be in Bulgaria doing a movie. I don't want to be in New Mexico. I want to stay home." And I started just sort of trying to sort of figure out how I could do this in a real way and Chris, my husband, who's a producer, was like, "Let me read something." And I was like, "I don't really know." And I was really vulnerable about it and really insecure about whether or not. And I had this weird sort of thing of like, "You're one thing. You're an actor or you're a ..." Like I just didn't ... I always thought that people who tried to do multiple, I was always a bit judgy about it and a bit like, "Okay, you're this, you're this, you're this, you're this. I mean, just focus on what you love and do that."
Kathleen R.: So I always thought, "I don't want to be that person. I'm just going to be an ..." And then I let Chris read a script and he texted me and he was like, "You're a writer. It's real. You're not an actor that wants to be a writer. I think you're a writer, you're a real writer." And I really respect his opinion and I knew that he wouldn't say that if he didn't believe it. So I said, "Okay." And I let my reps read it and they were like, "Oh yeah, this is good." Then that was ... After that we just kind of ... The rest is-
Jennifer Tracy: 'Cause you were doing a TV show. Well, when I met you you were doing a TV show and you had already been writing but I remember you were trying to do TV to stay in town. That was sort of the deal.
Kathleen R.: I think when I met you I was probably doing ... I was either doing Boss, but that's shot in Chicago.
Jennifer Tracy: It was the other one.
Kathleen R.: I was doing Murder in the First.
Jennifer Tracy: That's it.
Kathleen R.: Which was the TNT show that shot in LA, which was an amazing job 'cause I mean, who gets to film in LA anymore?
Jennifer Tracy: Right. Everything's in Atlanta or Canada or-
Kathleen R.: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: But at that time you'd already been writing so you'd already been planting these seeds since William was a baby.
Kathleen R.: Yeah. And during Boss, which was the show that I shot in Chicago, that's when it started to really kind of become real where it was like I sold something and then it was like, "Oh, now I'm doing rewrites and working on this, I'm working on this." And all through Murder in the First I was writing.
Jennifer Tracy: That's incredible.
Kathleen R.: So I was like filming and then in my trailer.
Jennifer Tracy: And how did that feel being paid for a writer versus being paid as an actor? And you'd had all these years of being paid as an actor so the whole big career behind you already of acting.
Kathleen R.: Yeah. It was-
Jennifer Tracy: Since you were 10.
Kathleen R.: ... amazing. Like it felt amazing.
Jennifer Tracy: What was different about it?
Kathleen R.: It just felt like it was more me and then being an actor is fabulous and it can be incredible but it's rarely that.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Kathleen R.: The majority of what it is to be an actor is really difficult.
Jennifer Tracy: Especially as a woman.
Kathleen R.: Really beyond. Yeah, beyond.
Jennifer Tracy: Let's go there for a minute.
Kathleen R.: Beyond. I mean, and everyone's like, "Oh everything's turning and it's so great now and ..." And it's like, "Nuts. We're not there yet."
Jennifer Tracy: So what would it be? And you and I have talked about this over the years and I remember you saying, it was so funny because I mean you guys know this and you'll see the pictures on the memes, Kathleen is exceptionally beautiful.
Kathleen R.: Oh.
Jennifer Tracy: You're funny but you are. You are.
Kathleen R.: My God, you should see me right now people. Sitting on my sweats.
Jennifer Tracy: You are. But I remember you saying something after Murder in the First was done and you were trying to get another TV show in LA and you said, "For an old girl like me ..." And I just looked at you like, "What?" And then I remembered, "Oh right, that's how it is." And I was like, "Old girl?" But even for me in my little piddly commercial career, former commercial actress career, it fell off after I turned 35. I used to have-
Kathleen R.: For most women, it's over at that point.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Kathleen R.: Without a doubt, even now. I mean, like almost everybody that I look at that I knew coming up and working with, it's like everybody's either going back to school-
Jennifer Tracy: Even if you're in a certain category of actress that's like A-list like it's hard for them too.
Kathleen R.: Well, I mean, the thing that's so interesting is even those women it's like it's not even enough anymore to just be an actor. It's like they all literally have production companies, they're producers, they're optioning 10 books a year. I mean, the pressure and the sort of what it is now it's like it's not even enough anymore to just be, "Oh you're on a TV show." It's like, "Well, what's your brand? And what's your ..." I mean, it's insanity.
Jennifer Tracy: While you're raising a kid.
Kathleen R.: While you're trying to be a mother, while you're trying to be like remembering to eat, wash your hair. I mean, it's too much.
Jennifer Tracy: It's crazy.
Kathleen R.: It's too much, yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: That's interesting. And it is shifting. Like when people say that, it's shifting. It is shifting but what I'm hearing you say is there's just more pressure from different directions.
Kathleen R.: I think that not sustainable and I feel like things are ... Like I feel like something's got to give at some point in terms of I've never ... Like I mean like I don't know how you feel about this but I am so hard on myself and I'm so just kind of like, "It's never enough." And if things are going well with work then it means I'm a bad mom because I'm not with my kids and when I'm with my kids, then I'm slacking on every other level. And it's just weird because I feel like my husband doesn't feel that.
Jennifer Tracy: No. I don't think men do.
Kathleen R.: Like Chris is just kind of like, "You know what, I did my best. I did my best." I'm like, "You did your best." But he doesn't feel that thing. Like he's like, "William's fine, they're fine. Like what are you worrying about?" Like, "I know but shouldn't we be this and ..." He's like, "They're fine."
Jennifer Tracy: It's true.
Kathleen R.: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: It's so true. And I don't know what the antidote for that except just time and experience and extra self-love and extra Saje on your head.
Kathleen R.: And lots of Biofreeze.
Jennifer Tracy: Yes, lots of Biofreeze.Yeah, that's interesting. And do you feel not less pressured, do you feel different pressure now that you're in this writing suite as a writer, as a paid writer? Are you pursuing acting at all right now or is that [crosstalk 00:26:28]
Kathleen R.: I have a new show coming out.
Jennifer Tracy: Well, you do?
Kathleen R.: I do.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh my God, how do you do it all?
Kathleen R.: Don't. I don't.
Jennifer Tracy: Wait, is this ... 'Cause you were in Canada this summer, that's what it is. Tell us about the show.
Kathleen R.: I have a show premiering on Netflix on March 1st.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh my gosh.
Kathleen R.: Called Northern Rescue so you'll see.
Jennifer Tracy: So you got to spend the summer with your family, came with you, which is a blessing. And you guys had the most picture ass Instagram perfect summer. I got to see some of it.
Kathleen R.: We did have a really good summer. Yeah, we did have a really good summer.
Jennifer Tracy: Did you think about moving there for five seconds?
Kathleen R.: We totally did.
Jennifer Tracy: I had that Chris was talking to Finkle at somebody's party and he was like, "We thought about it, we ..."
Kathleen R.: Yeah, it was heaven.
Jennifer Tracy: It looked amazing.
Kathleen R.: Yeah. We filmed up in Northern Ontario in this place called Parry Sound which is a couple hour drive from Toronto and it was amazing. I mean, it was definitely one of those jobs where ... I mean, we'll see how it does and if it gets picked up or what happens with it but it was kind of like a dream scenario 'cause William wasn't in school, we could all be together. Yeah, it was fabulous.
Jennifer Tracy: And same thing if it gets picked up, I'm assuming it has to be filmed in the summer.
Kathleen R.: Yeah. Like it's definitely just summers.
Jennifer Tracy: That's awesome.
Kathleen R.: So we'll see.
Jennifer Tracy: So what is the story and what's your part in it? You're like, "This is not a press junket Jennifer? I don't want to talk about this."
Kathleen R.: No, no, no. Kind of tonally. It's very different than anything I've ever done before. It's much more hopeful, it's much more ... It's a family drama so it's sort of tonally more like a this is us.
Jennifer Tracy: Okay.
Kathleen R.: And I play a character that's much less ... I always tend to get offered very dark, very complicated, very sort of like cracked, worked, bucked up women and this was not that. I was like, "Oh, this will be fun. I get to play in a normal healthy human." And it was sort of like a bit of a ... Like a conscious thing for me, like just feeling like after Boss, which was like a really amazing but really ... It was very extreme. I had to really go there emotionally and physically and it was sexual and it was very ... It was just a lot. It was just like a very intense period. And then Murder in the First, which was also very dark and very ... Like every day I'd be like, "Oh my God, I have to go cry all day." I was kind of like, "I'm ready to do something a little more cute."
Jennifer Tracy: Which is great 'cause goes with the fact that you're able to, at night, come home to your family and on the weekends go jump in the lake or-
Kathleen R.: Yes.
Jennifer Tracy: So that's great.
Kathleen R.: So it was fun. It was fun. So we'll see, we'll see what happens with it.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. But other than that you're not acting right now, like you're not on a project.
Kathleen R.: No, no, no. Like that was my sort of like check the box acting three and a half months. Great, now I can focus on all this stuff.
Jennifer Tracy: All this stuff.
Kathleen R.: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jennifer Tracy: And so what are you working on right now? It looks like there's several. And some of it you probably can't talk about but ...
Kathleen R.: Yeah. So there's some of it is just ... Yeah, just kind of in the beginning stages but right now I'm writing a movie called Little Bee for Julia Roberts in Amazon. It's based on a book, an amazing book.
Jennifer Tracy: I remember when this was first ... Oh yeah. Coming About and you were nervous about ... Yeah. So this is happening.
Kathleen R.: Fully happening. I've turned in my first draft, got notes, redoing my second draft now. I'm writing a movie for Jason [inaudible 00:29:51] that's called Possibilities and I am writing a movie called Lady Killer, which is based on a comic book series for Dark Horse Comics and Michelle MacLaren is directing it.
Jennifer Tracy: Amazing.
Kathleen R.: Those are features. And then the TV stuff is ... So I have a deal at Universal for television, going out with my first sort of big thing with them in the next month which is ... I'm not really supposed to talk about what it is just 'cause they want to keep it but it's Sam Shirley is there and is producing it with me. So I've been working with her which is super cool. And then I am also working on a project for television with Joe Berlinger who is a documentary filmmaker. He has that Ted Bundy thing on Netflix right now. He's really amazing. I'm a huge fan of his so I'm working with him which has been really cool. And then the book, which told you about, How to Party with an Infant, which I'm trying to put together.
Kathleen R.: I have a thing that I recently sold to Jeffrey Katzenberg's new company called Quibi and it's [inaudible 00:30:52] sharks. It's a reboot of this movie Swimming with Sharks with two women.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh my God.
Kathleen R.: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: So how many projects is that roughly?
Kathleen R.: I don't know.
Jennifer Tracy: So where is your brand? You just rattled off like 12 things plus, "Oh, that was just my summer where just all summer long I acted in a show and now I do this. And now I have a two-year old and a 10-year old."
Kathleen R.: But see what I mean?
Jennifer Tracy: Yes.
Kathleen R.: That's my point.
Jennifer Tracy: That's a lot.
Kathleen R.: It's a lot.
Jennifer Tracy: Plus you're married.
Kathleen R.: Plus I have a husband that needs to be-
Jennifer Tracy: Tended to.
Kathleen R.: Tended to emotionally, physically, all that stuff.
Jennifer Tracy: And a home and friends and ...
Kathleen R.: Yes.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, it's so much.
Kathleen R.: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: One thing that we haven't talked about that I got to dang on it but this is also something that we can take out if you want to but I wanted to ask you about your pregnancies. And I didn't know if you wanted to talk about those. So your first pregnancy, how did that go?
Kathleen R.: It was a surprise.
Jennifer Tracy: It was?
Kathleen R.: Yeah, total. Literally went to the store, thought, "This is weird. I'm buying a pregnancy test." Did it and went, "What?" Wasn't trying so it was the easiest thing ever. So of course, thought number two would be just as easy, never even thought about it too long. I think that something that people I think are starting to talk about now but I feel like women don't understand how difficult it is after 40 to have a kid. And I feel like we all are just like, "Oh, look at Halle Berry and look at Janet Jackson." And no one really talks about what that looks like. Like let's be totally frank, they didn't just get pregnant. It's not possible. Yeah, if I was to go back and do it all over again I would not have waited so long but I did and I wasn't ready to have a second for a very long time.
Kathleen R.: And then once William was around six I kind of thought, "Oh, I'm going to have a second." And got pregnant and had a miscarriage, very far long. I was like 17 weeks. Don't to this day, don't know why. Don't to this day know what happened. They never really could figure out why and what. And then that sort of became a two-year process. So from the time of that to Bennett, it was two years of just everything and anything you could ... I mean, it was like acupuncture and it was just everything. Yeah, I mean, I was just ...
Kathleen R.: And the biggest shock to me through all of it was how many women were just like, "Oh yeah, I've had one. Oh, I've had two. Oh, I've had six. Oh yeah, I've had ..." Everybody came out of the woodwork, everybody. And I went, "No one talks about this." It was startling to me. Started working with a therapist called Jessica Zucker who is fabulous. And she's kind of made it her life's mission to talk about this. I mean, she created this hashtag.
Jennifer Tracy: I had a miscarriage.
Kathleen R.: I had a miscarriage. And I've debated like should I write a book about it? And I've never really talked about it before now. I've talked to a lot with people that I know and I'm always the first person to be like ... I love talking to other women about it because I feel like this is just something that ... When you have a baby everybody celebrates and when you have a baby that doesn't make it, no one wants to talk about it 'cause nobody knows how to talk about it. So it would be so great if we could all get to a place where there's no stigma and that we can all talk about it because I know for me when I was going through it because of just the way my brain works, I immediately was like on Amazon buying every book about it. I was wanting to know every woman's story about it because it made me feel less alone.
Jennifer Tracy: Yes.
Kathleen R.: It was just that thing of like, "Oh my God, well she ..." Oh, reading this story of this woman makes me feel like I can breathe, like I'm okay because I'm not the only ... And it would be just so great if we all got to a place where we could start to talk about it and not have it be this thing where ... That was I think the hardest part of it. I shouldn't say that was the hardest part, the hardest part was it happening to me. But I think the second hardest part was that she's like, "Nobody knew how to deal with it." Like everybody was like, "Oh my gosh, you don't even look pregnant." And I would be like, "Yeah, no, I'm not anymore." And it would be silence and then that person would never want to talk to you again and look at you ... You'd walk down the hallways and everybody would ... And it's just that people just don't know what to do about it. It's so-
Jennifer Tracy: Then you feel even more isolated and it's already isolating.
Kathleen R.: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: And then you're grieving and having dealing with your own loss and ...
Kathleen R.: Yeah. But it never goes away.
Jennifer Tracy: Never goes away. Yeah.
Kathleen R.: Can never-
Jennifer Tracy: It is a death.
Kathleen R.: Yeah. Like it'll never ... It'll always be a period of my life that I just still can't even really comprehend. It's just so sad.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. Thank you for talking about it today. And I agree with you just about that, just like I think the more we talk about all these things it helps to lessen the stigma, the social anxiety about it. And mental health is something I talk about a lot on the show with my friend having died and my own struggles with depression and I think again it's just people don't know what to say or ... And it is not from lack of empathy or compassion, it's just knowledge I guess. And lack of experience of course. 'Cause once you've been through it, like you said, you're always like ... And if someone brings it up you want to share that you've been through it too to let them know that you have a shared experience.
Kathleen R.: Totally. Yeah. And I always think it's funny some of this stuff that Jessica writes about when she posts things. And it's like people will say things that are so not what you want ...
Jennifer Tracy: So not helpful, yeah.
Kathleen R.: Like, "Oh, like next time you just need to relax and it'll happen." Or, "You're just too stressed right now you need to ..." Just say, "I'm so sorry and give that person a hug. You don't have to ...
Jennifer Tracy: Fix it or have a solution.
Kathleen R.: No.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Kathleen R.: But I do really feel like I wish that ... And I have sort of thought about this a little bit and I don't know what it would look like but I think it would be great to figure out a way to get it out there more in terms of like educating women about what ... Like if you're going to wait until you're in your mid 40s, be prepared, just be prepared. And it's not to say that it can happen.
Jennifer Tracy: Or even, and I don't have any scientific evidence in front of me but even after 35 it skyrockets. All those things skyrockets.
Kathleen R.: It's next level. It's like 35 is the ... And again, I know there's people probably listening to this that that gives them anxiety so that I don't mean this in any way to be like, "If you're ..." It totally is doable, just know what's it's ...
Jennifer Tracy: Talk to your doctor and get the facts.
Kathleen R.: It's going to be different. It's going to be very different than what it would be. And even women in their 20s struggle with it too so it's not to say but it is definitely, I just think, one of those things where when I was forced to sort of really start doing research and it did become difficult for me the second time around to have a baby. I was just sort of like shocked by all the stuff I researched and learned about where I was like, "Wait, wait, wait. So that woman who's in her late 40s didn't just have ... Like what do you mean? She didn't just ...
Jennifer Tracy: Get pregnant.
Kathleen R.: She is ... Then you start realizing and you're like, "Sure, that's a whole other thing."
Jennifer Tracy: Sure.
Kathleen R.: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: So then, let's see, that was ... It was maybe what? Three years later I'm guessing relatively that you got pregnant the third time.
Kathleen R.: I did. And I'm very reluctant to ever talk about this part of it because again, I know that there are people listening to this right now who are in this position that I was in. And when I used to hear women say this it made me crazy and it made me really annoyed. I literally had kind of given up and thought I'm not going to pursue this anymore. It's just I need to be grateful for William and I need to be able to grateful for the life that I have and I can't focus on this anymore because it's clearly not ... Maybe it's just not meant to be. And then of course that was when I got pregnant.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Kathleen R.: And that doesn't-
Jennifer Tracy: That's your story.
Kathleen R.: That's my story.
Jennifer Tracy: That's your story.
Kathleen R.: Yap.
Jennifer Tracy: And so during that pregnancy, were you holding your breath?
Kathleen R.: Oh God, it was brutal.
Jennifer Tracy: The whole nine months.
Kathleen R.: It was brutal. Yeah, I was terrified. I was terrified.
Jennifer Tracy: Like until he was in your arms.
Kathleen R.: 100. And even then, I was so like ... I mean, I would say the first year of his life it was like the little sock with the beeper on it and the little like band around his toe. I mean, I was ... The monitor was literally at my ear.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Kathleen R.: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: PTSD.
Kathleen R.: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: I mean, how could it not.
Kathleen R.: 100%.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Kathleen R.: Yeah, 100%.
Jennifer Tracy: And now he is two years old.
Kathleen R.: Now he's two.
Jennifer Tracy: And so precious.
Kathleen R.: And the cutest little thing.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh my gosh.
Kathleen R.: Yeah, he's a sweet, sweet boy.
Jennifer Tracy: What a journey.
Kathleen R.: Yeah. It was really intense, very intense.
Jennifer Tracy: I always think of that quote from Steel Magnolias that Sally Field says, "Men are supposed to be made out of steel," or something. And talking about how women are so ... We are so strong and so resilient and it is really remarkable when you just shared your entire bits. I mean, we're talking for an hour or so but your entire life story, your career, everything that you have accomplished, your family that you've created and the strength and the losses and you're still here and you're still doing it. Man, it's a lot. Like some days I just want to go under the covers and knock him out.
Kathleen R.: Oh I know. It's a lot.
Jennifer Tracy: I do, but wow.
Kathleen R.: Yeah. And some days you just have to do that.
Jennifer Tracy: Some days you do have to do that.
Kathleen R.: That's what I'm trying to get better at.
Jennifer Tracy: Yes.
Kathleen R.: The whole idea of self-care.
Jennifer Tracy: Yes.
Kathleen R.: Is very, very much something that I'm trying to do more of.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Kathleen R.: And be like, "You know what, I don't have to do anything today if I don't want to. I can just ...
Jennifer Tracy: Stare at my wall.
Kathleen R.: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Kathleen R.: [inaudible 00:42:16].
Jennifer Tracy: Yes.
Kathleen R.: And stay with my baby and chill and I don't have to do all these things and accomplish all this stuff.
Jennifer Tracy: There's so much of that, which goes back to what you're saying about like be a mom and be a superstar and how's your brand and it's like, "Oh my God, don't you have a yoga line or ..." I mean it's ...
Kathleen R.: Right. What are you ... Yeah. I mean, this is like a stupid thing but like one of my biggest pet peeves or one of my biggest is the whole lunch things. I follow certain people and their lunches are so incredible that they make for their kids and it just makes me feel so ... And my husband is like, "Unfollow. You don't need to also be making homemade hummus. You don't have to." Like, "I know but it makes me feel ..." Like I'm the person who's literally like with the frozen Trader Joe's Gnocchi and hiding the bag 'cause I don't want people to be like, "Oh she's just making frozen Gnocchi." I don't have time to make homemade.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh yeah.
Kathleen R.: But I beat myself up about it.
Jennifer Tracy: My kid won't eat any of that. So I guess I will take that ticket because the fact that he won't eat any of that because I'm like, "Well, that's why his lunch today ..." He does get hot lunch at his new school which is fine. I don't even know if he's eating it. It's costing me hundreds of dollars a month, whatever. But then in the snack box this morning I packed Cheetos in one thing and it's the same beautiful box that you're seeing on many of these feeds that's filled with organic kiwi and rolled up fruit things and like edamame in one and then ... But mine doesn't look like that. It's got Cheetos in the big thing, two chocolate chip cookies from Trader Joe's in one, three Hershey's Kisses in the others.
Kathleen R.: I love it.
Jennifer Tracy: And then two strawberries in the small one that he won't eat. And he'll bring it back home and the strawberries will be in it.
Kathleen R.: Of course.
Jennifer Tracy: Warm and like squishy.
Kathleen R.: Totally.
Jennifer Tracy: And that's it.
Kathleen R.: But you put them in and that's what matters 'cause I do the same every day. Like I put in the orange or the apple and it always comes home.
Jennifer Tracy: Yuck, don't want it.
Kathleen R.: No.
Jennifer Tracy: Like, "Okay."
Kathleen R.: I know.
Jennifer Tracy: I don't know.
Kathleen R.: I know. But you know what, it's okay.
Jennifer Tracy: To quote your husband, "I did my best."
Kathleen R.: That's right. That's right, totally. Totally.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh my gosh, I can't believe. This is so awesome. This always happens when I have a great conversation. So we've come to the time where I'm going to ask you three questions that I ask every guest and then we're going to go into a lightning round of questions.
Kathleen R.: Okay.
Jennifer Tracy: The first question is, what do you think about when you hear the word milf?
Kathleen R.: Well, I think about your podcast. I actually do, I really do now. I mean, I used to think something else but now I think about you. I think about Jennifer.
Jennifer Tracy: Thank you. Okay, what's something you've changed your mind about recently?
Kathleen R.: Can I pass on any of them? Like it's so funny, I'm really bad at coming really ... Like I overthink so I'm going to kind of take a pass to that one.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, we'll come back.
Kathleen R.: Okay.
Jennifer Tracy: How do you define success?
Kathleen R.: Inner peace, yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: Okay. Lightning round. And these are easy, I'm going to give you an option for everything. Ocean or desert.
Kathleen R.: Ocean.
Jennifer Tracy: Favorite junk food.
Kathleen R.: Orange Sour Patch Kids.
Jennifer Tracy: So specific, I love it.
Kathleen R.: Yes.
Jennifer Tracy: Movies or broadway shows.
Kathleen R.: Movies.
Jennifer Tracy: Daytime sex or nighttime sex.
Kathleen R.: Night.
Jennifer Tracy: Texting or talking.
Kathleen R.: Depends on the person.
Jennifer Tracy: Cat person or dog person.
Kathleen R.: Dog.
Jennifer Tracy: Have you ever worn a unitard?
Kathleen R.: Totally.
Jennifer Tracy: Shower or bathtub.
Kathleen R.: Bath.
Jennifer Tracy: Ice cream or chocolate.
Kathleen R.: Chocolate.
Jennifer Tracy: On a scale of one to 10, how good are you at ping-pong?
Kathleen R.: Negative zero. Like the worst ever, couldn't even probably hit one.
Jennifer Tracy: What's your biggest pet peeve?
Kathleen R.: Can I pass?
Jennifer Tracy: Yap. If you could push a button and have perfect skin for the rest of your life but it would also give you incurable halitosis for the rest of your life, would you push it?
Kathleen R.: No.
Jennifer Tracy: Your face. You're like-
Kathleen R.: No.
Jennifer Tracy: ... what?
Kathleen R.: Don't care.
Jennifer Tracy: That's a horrible question.
Kathleen R.: No.
Jennifer Tracy: Superpower choice. Invisibility, ability to fly or super strength.
Kathleen R.: Fly.
Jennifer Tracy: Do you want me to circle back to the ones you skipped or do you want to skip them forever?
Kathleen R.: May we just skip 'em forever.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, skip 'em forever. We don't care. Would you rather have a penis where your tailbone is or-
Kathleen R.: Wait, a penis where my tailbone is.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Kathleen R.: Okay. I'm just visualizing and feeling what that would feel like.
Jennifer Tracy: She touched her tailbone to check it out.
Kathleen R.: I touched it and I just like, "Okay."
Jennifer Tracy: Right there, right there. Or a third eye, like a literal third eye?
Kathleen R.: You mean like I would have to walk around with it?
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. One or the other.
Kathleen R.: I don't even know how to wrap my brain around that question. And what warped person thought of this question?
Jennifer Tracy: Me.
Kathleen R.: I know you did. I know you did. What do you say? What would yours be?
Jennifer Tracy: Someone asked me on Instagram yesterday and I responded I think I'd go with the penis 'cause I want to see how the other half thinks. But if someone asked me that question, I would probably say, well, I'll take a penis where the third eye would go because nobody said that. Just to be different, just to be kind of an asshole.
Kathleen R.: I mean, if it was not on the tailbone, I would probably say this because I would be curious.
Jennifer Tracy: You'd want it where it's supposed to be?
Kathleen R.: Yeah. I wouldn't want it on my back 'cause you can't ...
Jennifer Tracy: You can't see it either.
Kathleen R.: No.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Kathleen R.: Would be really ...
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, it'd be hard to masturbate.
Kathleen R.: Yeah, it'd be very ...
Jennifer Tracy: You'd get a good stretch in your front.
Kathleen R.: Yeah. I think I would say I wouldn't want either.
Jennifer Tracy: There you go. There's your answer. Okay. Last set of two questions, what was the name of your first pet?
Kathleen R.: Mickey.
Jennifer Tracy: What was the name of the street you grew up on?
Kathleen R.: Edgewood.
Jennifer Tracy: So your porn name is Mickey Edgewood.
Kathleen R.: Oh, that's pretty good.
Jennifer Tracy: That's a very good one.
Kathleen R.: That's pretty good.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. Which is classy.
Kathleen R.: I like it. What's yours?
Jennifer Tracy: What is mine? Smokey Lariat.
Kathleen R.: Oh. That's good.
Jennifer Tracy: It's a little good. She's a little bit country.
Kathleen R.: Smokey's good.
Jennifer Tracy: Smokey is good.
Kathleen R.: Lariat's a little ...
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, not quite sure about it.
Kathleen R.: But Smokey's good.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Kathleen R.: I'm going to use that. I'm going to write Smokey down, it's a good name.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. S-M-O-K-E-Y.
Kathleen R.: That's a good name.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Kathleen R.: It's a good girl character name.
Jennifer Tracy: It is, right?
Kathleen R.: Yeah, uh-huh.
Jennifer Tracy: Kathleen, thank you so much.
Kathleen R.: Thank you.
Jennifer Tracy: Thanks so much for listening guys. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Kathleen. Just a quick reminder, that today is the last day for you to write an iTunes review for MILF Podcast. Well, it's not the last day for you to write a review, it's the last day of the February give but whenever you write an iTunes review, just know that I've been linking them to different organizations that I'm going to donate to. So in the month of March, there will be another donation geared toward women which I will announce next week. So even if you write it tomorrow, it'll still count toward something but today is the last day for Lumos. It's just a pleasure to bring this show to you guys every week. I love meeting all these fascinating women with incredible stories, the beautiful tapestries of their lives and their children and how in the hell they juggle all this stuff. Because I'm still just figuring it out one day at a time, barely. Barely, barely.
Jennifer Tracy: Anyway, I love you guys so much. Thank you to my amazing team who helps me produce this show. Sarah, Liz, Kevin and Derick, I love you guys and I'll be talking to you guys all next week.