Kimberly Muller: My husband always says, "You just got to adapt." And we have to embrace it and figure out how it works in our life, because it's not changing. It's not going anywhere. And there are amazing things. Like, I have a love-hate relationship with Instagram, but I love to see my friends who live in New York and their kids growing up because at least you feel like you can connect with them.
Announcer: You're listening to the MILF Podcast. This is the show where we talk about motherhood and sexuality with amazing women with fascinating stories to share on the joys of being a MILF. Now, here's your host, the MILFiest MILF I know, Jennifer Tracy.
Jennifer Tracy: Hey, guys. Welcome back. Thank you so much for tuning in. This is MILF Podcast, the show where we talk about motherhood, entrepreneurship, sexuality, and everything in between. I'm your host, Jennifer Tracy. So here we are rolling right into January. We're in the second week of January already. I want to thank everyone who participated in our 12 Days of MILFness T-shirt contest. I gave away 12 days of T-shirts, and then three top winners got a T-shirt and seven female-authored books. That's seven of my favorite female author books. That was really fun, and thank you guys for participating in that, and there will be more things like that coming up soon.
Jennifer Tracy: So I'll keep you posted. And also this month, the give, the January give for MILF Podcast is an organization called Harvest Home L.A. You can find them at harvesthomela.org. They are an organization that provides housing and programming for homeless women and their children. And it's really a beautiful organization. They really help these women find this nurturing community within this house. It's in West L.A., provide them with the training that they need to be able to not only care for their children but also gain employment and give back to the community either by working at Harvest Home or any number of different options.
Jennifer Tracy: So for every iTunes review that I get this month, I will be giving $3 to Harvest Home L.A. And if you want to donate to them directly, you can go to harvesthomela.org. Another thing is just wanted to remind you guys, we changed our rating from clean to explicit, not because we're constantly dropping F-bombs on the show, which some guests do, some guests, there's no cursing at all in the episode.
Jennifer Tracy: But my team and I decided to do that because sometimes there is. And there's only two ratings on iTunes. And they're either clean or explicit. Just, we wanted our listeners to be forewarned that sometimes that does happen. Sometimes there's an F-bomb. Sometimes the S-H word comes out. Sometimes we talk about sex or sexuality and those kinds of topics, so just so that you know what you're getting into. But for the most part, we're really just talking. I'm talking to women and wanting to dive into their personal stories, and their stories of success, and their stories of motherhood, and what happened before, and what it's like now, and how they got there, and what they decided to do. I'm just, I love this. It's very exciting to me.
Jennifer Tracy: And I'm so grateful I get to do it and bring it to you guys every week. So today's guest is the beautiful Kimberly Muller. Kimberly came to me. She was a friend of Claire Stansfield's, who was a guest on the show, gosh, I guess a couple months ago now. And I just felt so lucky when I got to go interview her and meet her in her beautiful home. And we sat down. And there was gorgeous artwork on the wall. And I didn't realize until she explained later that her husband is a well-known photographer. And he had done, he had taken these photos and blown the up, and she talks about it in an interview, but contributed to her books that she's written.
Jennifer Tracy: And Kimberly is truly a renaissance woman. She's one of those people that she could do anything. Just everything she touches turns to gold, kind of thing. And I just feel like there's not quit in her. And that's rare. And I really admire that spunk. And she's just very spunky in that way and very joyful, and I really admire that because I don't always have that spunk and joy. It might look like I do, but I don't always have it. And oftentimes I feel exhausted and defeated.
Jennifer Tracy: And sometimes I still deal with my depression that comes, but I have treatment for that. And I've shared openly on the show that I take medication, and I'm in therapy. But I still deal with it. But that's me. But Kimberly is just a bright light. And I feel so lucky that I got to share this conversation with her. And now I get to share it with you guys. So enjoy. Hi, Kimberly.
Kimberly Muller: Hi, Jennifer. How are you?
Jennifer Tracy: I'm good. How are you?
Kimberly Muller: I'm really good, thanks.
Jennifer Tracy: Thank you so much for being on the show.
Kimberly Muller: Of course. Thanks for having me.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh my gosh, such a pleasure. So we just met ...
Kimberly Muller: We did.
Jennifer Tracy: ... for the first time. This is very exciting.
Kimberly Muller: And my first podcast.
Jennifer Tracy: It's a first. What an honor. I'm so honored. So I want to kind of start from the beginning. Where are you from?
Kimberly Muller: Washington D.C., right outside.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh, nice.
Kimberly Muller: Bethesda, actually.
Jennifer Tracy: Beautiful. Do you still have family there?
Kimberly Muller: Still my parents are there, my brother is there. My sister's in New York City but still on the East Coast.
Jennifer Tracy: And you from there moved to New York.
Kimberly Muller: No, I moved, actually at 25 years old, I was doing field publicity. I was kind of a perma intern and was doing field publicity and promotion, hired while I was in college by this ad agency that handled like field publicity for Paramount, FOX, and MGM. And I fell in love with my boss. She fell in love with me. She kept offering me jobs. She paid me while I was in college. And then when I graduated, I thought I was going to law school. She's like, "Hey, just come work for us for a little."
Kimberly Muller: She was doing a big premiere for a movie ages ago with Donald Sutherland called A Dry White Season for the Congressional Black Caucus. And I was like, "Sure." And that just kind of ended up being working there for a few years, and then through that met these producers I was handling East Coast publicity for their movie. And they offered me a job. And they moved me. In two weeks I packed up and moved from Washington, D.C. to Los Angeles. I was 25, so it's like I didn't know better. I thought, "Oh, I'll go do that for a couple years. And then I'll come back." And I'm still here.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, and to come to L.A., though, at that young age is pretty exciting.
Kimberly Muller: Yeah, it is.
Jennifer Tracy: I mean, there's like you have the nice weather. So that was a draw, and Hollywood and all of that. So you moved to Hollywood, and then what happened?
Kimberly Muller: Well, I was hired by this company. I had no idea what I was doing. But I was 25, so it's like, "Okay. I can do this." They represented directors through a company, and then left that company, opened West Coast offices for another company doing more of the same, but like representing directors, but commercials and music videos. But it was more I was kind of the boss because they were all on the East Coast, and I opened the company out here.
Jennifer Tracy: And how old were you then when you were the boss, 30?
Kimberly Muller: Yeah. Probably more like 27, 28 years old.
Jennifer Tracy: That's incredible.
Kimberly Muller: And then-
Jennifer Tracy: I was not doing anything like that when I was 27. I think I was the towel girl at Burke Williams for $8 an hour.
Kimberly Muller: I went to Burke Williams all the time. That was my self-care back in the day. I literally drive by and see Burke Williams. And I'm like, "Oh my God, I remember Burke Williams." But yeah, so one of my directors, I was doing commercials and music videos. And one of my directors was like, "Let's make this movie." And I was like, "Okay." So I like hocked my Cartier watch. I was fully employed by another company, by the way. And I kind of secretly started producing a movie.
Jennifer Tracy: This was your side hustle.
Kimberly Muller: It was my side hustle. I mean, literally they ended up suing me for credit on the movie.
Jennifer Tracy: Really?
Kimberly Muller: I mean, they just got a production credit on the movie.
Jennifer Tracy: I see.
Kimberly Muller: But, I mean, I made a movie for $570,000. I got funding from NDIC. I was a D.C. girl, so knew all like those weird companies. And I was a minority company technically. I started this company called Conspiracy while I was employed by another company.
Jennifer Tracy: That's amazing!
Kimberly Muller: And-
Jennifer Tracy: The name of the company was Conspiracy?
Kimberly Muller: The one I created-
Jennifer Tracy: That's incredible.
Kimberly Muller: ... [crosstalk 00:08:40] because it was all about a conspiracy. It was all under the table. Yeah, we made ... hocked the Cartier watch, got funding from MDIC because I was in a minority company. I was a woman-owned company, which was a minority. And we made this movie. And it was so much fun. And then so that was a company that a partner and I had. And we made two independent movies. And then I met my husband. And it was important for both of us that that I kind of be home if we were going to have children and raise our kids. So I retired and produced my family basically, and had three daughters.
Jennifer Tracy: Wow. And how old are they now?
Kimberly Muller: 14 and twins that are 11.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh my gosh.
Kimberly Muller: Yeah, it's crazy.
Jennifer Tracy: You really are in the car a lot. We were talking about that before I hit record.
Kimberly Muller: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: We were talking about how much we're in the car.
Kimberly Muller: I think everyone in L.A. is in the car a lot.
Jennifer Tracy: Just, yeah. It's just part of the deal.
Kimberly Muller: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jennifer Tracy: Wow. Okay. So you've "retired." I'm air quoting. But not for long because you're the kind of person ... What's your star ... What's your sun sign, by the way?
Kimberly Muller: I'm a Cancer-
Jennifer Tracy: You're a Cancer.
Kimberly Muller: ... with the Gemini rising, and my moon's in Aquarius.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh, God, yes.
Kimberly Muller: So I'm very airy Cancer. I'm a little bit of a weird Cancer.
Jennifer Tracy: And you don't stop moving.
Kimberly Muller: I don't stop moving.
Jennifer Tracy: So you have your first daughter.
Kimberly Muller: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jennifer Tracy: And how long after that ... Well, first of all, how was your pregnancy and your postpartum experience? Did you have any PPD or-
Kimberly Muller: I loved being pregnant, I did. I know people hate me when I say that. Even with my twins, I just, I was wearing my short mini dresses and high heels just because I felt so blessed that I could carry these amazing ... And I know it's not the same. And I, you know, it didn't-
Jennifer Tracy: Everybody's thing is different.
Kimberly Muller: Everybody's different, and I didn't feel ... I was very nauseous in the beginning. I literally ate bagels and cream cheese for months. Other than that, it was great. I loved being pregnant. And in fact, because I had such a good first pregnancy, when I was pregnant with the twins, the second baby was breach. And because my doctor was kind of older, not one of these new doctors, he let me have them naturally because the second baby, B, was breach. So he let me try and do it. And I did it.
Jennifer Tracy: That's amazing.
Kimberly Muller: It was amazing.
Jennifer Tracy: Wow. So you have, let's go back to when you have a toddler and two baby twins. What is that? What was that like?
Kimberly Muller: I just sat in bed for a long time. I was like a milk maid. I mean ...
Jennifer Tracy: Totally. And was your husband available? Was he partnering with you?
Kimberly Muller: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: What was that like?
Kimberly Muller: He's amazing, but he travels a lot. He's a photographer, and he's on the road a lot. But during obviously that time we would schedule it so he was here because I needed help. So he did a lot of stuff with our ... She was three at the time when we had the twins, Clara. They were kind of the dynamic duo for a little while I sat in bed being a milk maid because with twins for a second you can kind of feed the both at the same time. But when they turn three months old, they were kind of like, "Get the hell out of my space." And there was no more. So it was like you fed them, and then ... But he was amazing, because, but yeah, I'd feed them, and he would diaper them and get in touch with his Native American chanting.
Jennifer Tracy: Wow. That's great. Good partnership. How long have you guys been married?
Kimberly Muller: It'll be 15 years on New Year's Eve.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh my God, New Year's Eve. Are you guys doing anything special?
Kimberly Muller: I mean, I hope so, but nothing's planned yet. We're always-
Jennifer Tracy: Right.
Kimberly Muller: Because it's hard to get a sitter on New Year's Eve.
Jennifer Tracy: Totally.
Kimberly Muller: So normally it's like a family affair.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Kimberly Muller: And maybe we'll celebrate down the road a little bit.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. Well, congratulations.
Kimberly Muller: Thank you very much.
Jennifer Tracy: That's amazing.
Kimberly Muller: Thank you.
Jennifer Tracy: So, okay, so you have three little ones. You're you. You're a go-getter obviously. You're the boss. You're the big boss at 27. That blows my mind. That's so sexy. It's amazing. So you have three little ones, and at what point did you kind of go get inspired to do ... And we're going to go through all the amazing things that you've done and are continuing to do because it's very exciting. At what point did you kind of wake up and go, "I got to do this thing?"
Kimberly Muller: Organically, my brother was going through a divorce, and I had a niece and a nephew. And my nephew was three at the time. And it was actually I guess Clara had been born, and I wrote a book because I was looking ... I was the kid that was always scouring the bookstores and stuff and sitting on the floor of a bookstore looking at books. And as an older person, I do the same and did the same. And I was looking, because he wasn't talking, my three-year-old nephew, and he was just ... It was it's a bummer. But I was looking for a book about perception because in life, things happen that suck, but there's nothing you can do about it.
Kimberly Muller: The only thing you can do about it is how you choose to handle the situation and react to it. Like I always like to say, life is kind of 10% what happens to us and 90% how we react to it.
Jennifer Tracy: Totally.
Kimberly Muller: So I was looking for a book to kind of send to him because that was always my favorite gift to give is a book. And I couldn't find it. So I just decided to write it.
Jennifer Tracy: That's amazing.
Kimberly Muller: So, because writing is something I could do with three little children, because I could do it whenever I wanted, and I wrote a book about a little girl who hated her red hair because it was what I knew. And I hated my red hair. And I took a real-life experience of a kid yelling at me when I was in elementary school when the lights went off for like an assembly or something. And he's like, "Turn off your hair! It's glowing in the dark!" You don't like to be different when you're little. I mean, now I embrace it, and I think being unique is great. And I love my red hair. But when I was little, I wanted straight brown-
Jennifer Tracy: No, we want to be a part of.
Kimberly Muller: ... hair.
Jennifer Tracy: Absolutely, yeah. I'm almost six feet tall, and I wanted to be petite forever. So I relate to that. And now I'm totally cool with it.
Kimberly Muller: Yeah, it's amazing. And I want to be six feet tall. Yeah, so I couldn't find the book. So I just wrote it. But then I wrote this book, and because it was so visual, I'm a very visual person, I thought in my head I could find, like I'm going to go to Art Center and find some great student, and they're going to draw the book for me and illustrate it. But I must have interviewed I mean upwards of 40-something illustrators, kids, professionals, everything. But because it was so in my head, every time somebody gave me an example, it was so not what I was already seeing. So I kind of put it literally to bed with the twins. I just wasn't really doing anything else.
Kimberly Muller: And then because I had been looking for an illustrator, someone who was at a management company and knew that was like, "I think you should meet this illustrator." And it was actually a man. And it was such a girly book to me because the whole book is about, it's called The Adventures of Fifi and Noni. And it's about a little girl who hates her red hair, falls asleep at night. And I was obsessed with snow globes. And she has a whole collection of snow globes on her wall.
Kimberly Muller: And she obviously dreams that she goes into her snow globe with her little brother Noni, and they have this amazing adventure. And they go to Aipotu, which is "Utopia" spelled backwards. And in this amazing, wonderful snow-covered world, they meet these amazing characters, like Llamaroo. And it was like Obama meets Al Green and all these amazing people and creatures and things, so by the end, her red hair saves the day in this world. So by the end, she doesn't know what her wish is any longer because before, she didn't want the red hair. Now she embraces it and likes [foreign language 00:16:04], as she says and being unique.
Jennifer Tracy: She became empowered.
Kimberly Muller: She became empowered-
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. That's beautiful.
Kimberly Muller: ... by it. So it's sat probably with no words for two years. And then my friend was like, "Just meet this guy. And I did, this amazing artist named Chad Attie, and he brought the book to life. So it became an amazing book. And I was like, oh, this is kind of fun. It got optioned. Nothing ever happened. But it was optioned, and it sat on a studio's ... I don't know what they do with those books and those things.
Jennifer Tracy: Slush pile sort of thing, yeah.
Kimberly Muller: But nothing ever happened. Yes. But it did empower me. And I was like, "Oh, it's fun, and I can do this, and I like this." And everyone loved the book. So I was like, "Okay." And then it just kind of kept moving forward. And then Clara was in first grade, I think. And we were on a field trip with her school at the air ... I think it was like the Natural History Museum. And it was an IMAX movie about Under the Sea. And she literally, you see that little seal swimming into the frame. And it talks about, the narrator talks about there's nowhere further for the seals to swim south.
Kimberly Muller: Then she literally, boy, she got up, put her hands over her ears, because she's one of those kids like when something's too much, she covers her ears. And she left. It was a field trip. All her little friends followed. So after all the moms were like, "What do we do? What do we do? How do we get our kids involved?" Because obviously cleaning up the planet and the global warming thing, which was happening way back then, I mean, that's 2013, 2012. What? That's however many years ago, six years ago or something.
Kimberly Muller: And I started doing a ton of research on like all the different organizations and NRGC, which does amazing legislation. But they weren't really doing anything that got kids involved. And my husband, who was already like a UN global advocate and already doing things to like help the planet and save the seas and things like that, or I'm like, who do we talk to? And we met this amazing guy Philippe Cousteau, who has a organization called EarthEcho, which inspires an engages youth to shape the planet.
Jennifer Tracy: Is he related to Jacques?
Kimberly Muller: He's the grandson.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh my God, that's incredible.
Kimberly Muller: One of the grandsons.
Jennifer Tracy: That's incredible.
Kimberly Muller: And it was basically just one of those synergistic things. And because it was so hard for me to originally find an illustrator, I'm like, "Ah, I'm going to use what's in my own backyard and give them favors and not have to pay him." So my husband shot the entire book. So we did an second book. I did a second book called Last Night I Swam with a Mermaid. And it's starring my now 14-year-old daughter, Clara. And Michael took all the pictures, and we self-published it, and we called it the little book that could because we give all the proceeds to EarthEcho. And so you see it goes into the classrooms of L.A. Unified and stuff. So you can see exactly where all the money from the books goes.
Jennifer Tracy: That's incredible.
Kimberly Muller: Yeah, it's kind of great.
Jennifer Tracy: And if listeners want to buy the book, they can go to your website and buy the book?
Kimberly Muller: Yeah. There's actually the mermaid book has its own website.
Jennifer Tracy: That has its own website.
Kimberly Muller: It's ... Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: But you can get it to it through your website.
Kimberly Muller: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: Because I did that this morning.
Kimberly Muller: You did?
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Kimberly Muller: I mean, yeah, but, yeah, you definitely can.
Jennifer Tracy: Okay.
Kimberly Muller: And it's not even like ... I think it's really the mermaid book website, and then it might link to my blog, which I don't think I've posted to since for two years.
Jennifer Tracy: That's why I don't have a blog yet.
Kimberly Muller: It's hard to find time. I know.
Jennifer Tracy: No, I need to get a-
Kimberly Muller: I did. I was really good about doing that all the time, and I'm just not. Now I just kind of like repost things that I used to say.
Jennifer Tracy: You did write two books, though, I'm just going to say. You did write two books, and open a bunch of other businesses, which we'll get to in a minute. So you've been a little busy. But so that's amazing. So and the name of the book again is One Night I Swam-
Kimberly Muller: Last Night I Swam with a Mermaid.
Jennifer Tracy: Last Night I Swam with a Mermaid. It's so beautiful. And there's some pictures on its website of what's inside the book. And that's incredible. But then the other book did get published.
Kimberly Muller: Yeah. They've all gotten published. And they're out there in the world for everybody to read. And the best thing about that, the mermaid book, and Fifi and Noni obvious, because everybody likes to go on an adventure, but every little girl loves a mermaid, so there's always three- and five-year-olds and upwards of seven. I mean, I just read the other day to a bunch of kids.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh, I'm obsessed with mermaids.
Kimberly Muller: Yeah. We're all obsessed.
Jennifer Tracy: I'm 43 years old. So, but wait a minute. Between the writing Fifi and Noni and then the mermaid book, when did Fifi and Noni get published?
Kimberly Muller: We self-published it.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh, you self-published. You self-published all of it.
Kimberly Muller: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jennifer Tracy: This is ... I love talking about this because I work with writers, and I love the creative process, and especially when people get inspired as you did to do something that you'd never done before. You'd never written a children's book before. And I think a lot of people get stuck on that, like, "Oh, I can't do it because, because, because, because, because." And it's like you just did it, and it took a long time, and it took what it took, but then you decided to self-publish. I think that's so empowering, and so amazing, and such a great example.
Kimberly Muller: I was so tired of everybody. I would write something that I've thought maybe was pushing the boundaries, and the publishers would all be like, "Well, we love this, but could you just change this?" I'm like, "No. That was the whole point of it."
Jennifer Tracy: That's the point.
Kimberly Muller: And even with the mermaid book, I remember them telling me, because I showed it to people because I had people that were interested and wanted it, but I remember them saying to me, "Well, you got to take out 'mantra.'" I'm like, "But I'm not taking the word 'mantra' out because I want kids to ask their parents what that means." So it was like I was over the rules. And it's the same thing I did with I made movies guerrilla style. That was what I ... like total control, guerrilla style without ... The minute Hollywood got involved, I was not so interested in making movies anymore. It was really fun making really low-budget, independent films with amazing first-time directors, but then Hollywood gave three picture deals to
Jennifer Tracy: Of course. So let's go back to that, because I want to talk about the two movies that you made with your Conspiracy production company. What were they about? What drew you to those scripts? What drew you to those stories? Why did you need to tell that story?
Kimberly Muller: It's interesting because the first one came to me from this wonderful director, Darren Stein, and it's a movie called Sparkler. And it was about a 40-something year old woman kind of a hero's journey about rediscovering herself and her life. Now, I was obviously younger, but she basically lives in a tiny little town, Victorville, in her trailer park. And her world is turned upside down and expanded when she comes across three young boys on a road trip, just that kind of ...
Kimberly Muller: And I think that that's a little bit of a through line through a lot of my things and even my books is like life happens, and sometimes things that we don't expect and might seem awful at the time, or unexpected, or not what you think your life is supposed to do, like kind of the hiccups that we have in life end up being the most amazing experiences and the most life-changing things that happen to us. And it's so important just to like, I know it's so hard, and the older I get, it's easier. And when I was younger, I just don't think I saw it as clearly, but just to trust it.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, that is the hardest thing, because-
Kimberly Muller: It is.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, and just kind of surrendering that idea, because it is just an idea that you have any control, because you have no control.
Kimberly Muller: No. The only thing we have control over is how we react to it. That's all we have control over.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, that's true.
Kimberly Muller: And I always say, if I can teach my kids anything, that's one of the most important things is just somebody's always going to be mean to you. Life is not easy, but you have control over yourself, loving yourself, taking care of yourself, all of those things. It's the only thing we can control.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, and how you treat other people.
Kimberly Muller: All of that.
Jennifer Tracy: You know?
Kimberly Muller: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: Your kindness, your generosity, that kind of thing.
Kimberly Muller: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: It reminds me of the stories. My son came home from school yesterday, and he put a dollar on the countertop. And I was like, "Where'd you get that dollar?" And he was like, "Oh, I gave this kid a piece of gum, and it was my last piece of gum. So I he gave me a dollar." I was like, "Um, okay." So I sat down, and I said, "I don't ..." because I wanted to be really delicate. I didn't want to shame him. I didn't want to make him wrong or bad or anything, because the truth is someone gave him a dollar. That's [crosstalk 00:24:25].
Kimberly Muller: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: But I also wanted to teach him, "No, no, no. We don't take a dollar for somebody a piece of gum." So I don't remember exactly what I said. This was last night. But I think I said something to the effect of, "When we are generous with our things, our food, or whatever it is, we don't need anything in return. It's the gift of the feeling of generosity." And he did not like that answer. He was just like, "But it was he said he felt bad." I was like, "That's okay. Those are his feelings." I didn't want to get too deep in it. But anyway, that just reminded me of that.
Kimberly Muller: Well, it's harder too ... I feel like I'm always like ... And I hate ... like, "Don't preach to me." I'm like, "I'm not preaching, I'm teaching."
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Kimberly Muller: I just, there are so many of those concepts, and I think that's why I like to write these books and do what I'm doing, because I can kind of hide that stuff inside of it and know that hopefully one day they'll realize it. Because ... And again, are kids don't listen to us. They just watch us. So the best thing we can ever do is just be living examples of all the things that we talk about because-
Jennifer Tracy: That's so true. Yeah.
Kimberly Muller: But giving is one of the best things. It's like when you're not feeling good, the best thing to do is to get off of yourself and to give to others.
Jennifer Tracy: Absolutely. And, yeah, I always try to remind him we are like super crazy fortunate. This is-
Kimberly Muller: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: And they don't know. And I don't want to try to tell him about the suffering that's going, but this is just going to be part of what we do. And I'm explaining to him the concept of being of service on a regular ... Anyway, without getting into it, but it's a challenge, and I love what you're saying about kids and grownups. We just learn better through stories. So you've birthed three beautiful girls. You've written two books and published them. You were a film producer long before all that. Then you create this other next thing. So tell us-
Kimberly Muller: Well, I think that I'm always just kind of everyone's like, "Well, what do you do?" And I was always kind of writing, and doing, and helping other people like fluff characters. I was just, I never stopped kind of creating because I feel like that's what keeps me going, even if it's crafting with my kids. You know what I mean?
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Kimberly Muller: I'm always just kind of doing and whatever. And then just a girlfriend and I kind of had the same idea at the same time. This home was always open. I always entertained at my house. My friend's birthday parties were here. Everything happened here. And I loved it, all my friend kids' birthday parties, and basically one day me and my girlfriend and another friend who didn't have kids, we had five kids between us, and then we were meeting our friend for dinner who didn't have any children.
Kimberly Muller: And it was like, where do you go? It was like the only place to really go was to go to Bushong, and we could sit on the steps and drink rosé, and the kids can run in the grass because I don't want to compromise it. I mean, no offense to Chuck E. Cheese, but that's not where I want to go eat dinner. And it's just, it was basically a missing link in the marketplace, and it didn't exist, what we were talking about. And it was basically an extension of our own home.
Kimberly Muller: And we created it. I don't think anybody did. We all had other jobs. And it was somehow we miraculously pulled off this beautiful space, and we opened it, and it was ... And I wrote the story of The Story of Au Fudge, which, again, goes back to what we were talking about is that whole story is just basically literally a car breaks. A family's car breaks down in front of what they think is a crazy old haunted mansion, but turns out to be a house of wonder and magic with this chef, Claude Croissant, who has these amazing unicorns that come to life, and bears that dance, and giraffes that are waiters, and that's Au Fudge.
Kimberly Muller: And basically it's just like anything is possible because it was the story of us, three women creating this business, and we did it, and now we're basically they call it proof of concept, and we're pivoting the brand. We've actually closed our first location. Just, there's a lot of construction across the street. Beside, next door we have another Au Fudge camp, which is the Center for Art, Music, and Play.
Jennifer Tracy: I just saw that, because I went to, I took myself to Sushi at [inaudible 00:28:46] last night, and I'm walking upstairs. I'm like, "Wait a minute." So tell us about Au Fudge Camp.
Kimberly Muller: So Au Fudge Camp is basically more of the play space. When you build something, you realize the needs, or what's missing, or whatever. And for us, the hardest part was definitely the restaurant. None of us wanted to be in the restaurant business. But it was definitely part of the concept because it was important for us that families could go and have a great dinner and a cocktail.
Jennifer Tracy: A glass of wine, yeah.
Kimberly Muller: And then when your kids are done in five minutes, there was a creative space with au pairs that would do arts and crafts and whatever. And so Au Fudge Camp is more ... And we were doing classes, music classes, all of that. Au Fudge Camp is kind of an extension of that, which actually is more as a zip line, and a climbing wall, and more of a play space. If we really had it to build all over again, it would be all under one roof. And so right now we're doing more pop-ups and brand partnerships is what we're focusing on.
Jennifer Tracy: When you say pop-ups, you mean ... Like, what does that look like?
Kimberly Muller: Basically like we're talking to different brands.
Jennifer Tracy: How do you pop up a restaurant?
Kimberly Muller: Well, I would pop up in a restaurant that already had a restaurant and then bring in kind of what Au Fudge does, like the au pairs, and the crafts, and the cooking, and all of that fun stuff.
Jennifer Tracy: That's so great.
Kimberly Muller: Yeah, more of an experience.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, so you do that. Is that just in L.A., or are you going to expand?
Kimberly Muller: Right now it's just in L.A.
Jennifer Tracy: Okay, because I'm thinking, like-
Kimberly Muller: We're hoping ... Yeah. That's the idea.
Jennifer Tracy: Everywhere.
Kimberly Muller: That is the idea. Yeah, it's I'm just learning like when you build businesses like that, and they call it proof of concept, which we did. And now we're kind of pivoting the brand and the model to make it, streamline it, they say, or expansion.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. That's amazing. Oh my gosh.
Kimberly Muller: Yeah, it's fun.
Jennifer Tracy: Wow. And so when did you open Au Fudge?
Kimberly Muller: It'll be almost three years ago.
Jennifer Tracy: Wow. That's awesome. So you're busy doing that.
Kimberly Muller: Yeah, and-
Jennifer Tracy: And raising three teenagers.
Kimberly Muller: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: Well, two tweens and one teenager.
Kimberly Muller: Yeah. But really my whole, my big thing is like the writing. I just, I finished my first middle-grade chapter book. That was just optioned by ... is we're turning it into a television show.
Jennifer Tracy: Yes! That's so exciting.
Kimberly Muller: Those are the things, again, like, Au Fudge is like this passion thing that was this beautiful idea that was born from people when we thought it was needed in the world. But sitting by myself in a room and writing and creating is really where I'm most comfortable.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. But you need all. I sense that from you, because-
Kimberly Muller: Yeah, I do.
Jennifer Tracy: ... you're ... And I'm the same way. I am an Gemini, and I have what is my ... Virgo rising Aries moon, so similar. I have a lot of air.
Kimberly Muller: When's your birthday?
Jennifer Tracy: June 3rd.
Kimberly Muller: Right. Eldest is, she's double Gemini. She's a 20th, yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh yeah. A lot of Mercury, and a lot of communication, and a lot of-
Kimberly Muller: All of it. And then the rest of us, we're all Cancers [crosstalk 00:31:43].
Jennifer Tracy: My son's a Cancer.
Kimberly Muller: When's his birthday?
Jennifer Tracy: July 12th.
Kimberly Muller: I'm July 5th. My husband's July 7th. The twins are July 16th.
Jennifer Tracy: No way.
Kimberly Muller: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jennifer Tracy: That's crazy.
Kimberly Muller: That's crazy.
Jennifer Tracy: Wow. A lot of water.
Kimberly Muller: A lot of water.
Jennifer Tracy: It's so good.
Kimberly Muller: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jennifer Tracy: So can you tell us anything about this chapter book? Or is it under wraps?
Kimberly Muller: I can tell you it's not under wraps. It's actually in galley. It hasn't even been published yet. It's The Paloma Peach Picture Show about a 12-year-old girl figuring out life. And she has elaborate technicolor musical numbers inside of her head, trying to figure out life.
Jennifer Tracy: That's going to be the best TV show.
Kimberly Muller: Yeah, it'll be, the TV show probably won't be a musical because it's more complicated, but my dream is to make that a whole musical. That's a whole other thing. But-
Jennifer Tracy: I mean, it's going to be on Broadway next.
Kimberly Muller: Well, that's what I hope. We hope so.
Jennifer Tracy: It's such an obvious progression.
Kimberly Muller: I know. It is an obvious ... It-
Jennifer Tracy: To me too. I mean, yeah.
Kimberly Muller: Yeah. It all takes time. Exactly.
Jennifer Tracy: That's so great.
Kimberly Muller: Yeah, and then I'm working on my grown-up book right now.
Jennifer Tracy: Okay, tell us about that, if you can, a little bit.
Kimberly Muller: I mean, it's kind of ... Well, first of all, it's not in its embryo because I wrote a whole, basically a novel that's fiction. But like all fiction, it's based on reality. And then the people that have been working with me, and the agents and such were basically like, "You need to make this your story. This should not be fiction." So now I've gone back to the drawing board, and I'm basically taking what I started, doing it more from my point of view.
Jennifer Tracy: Wow.
Kimberly Muller: Yeah, I mean-
Jennifer Tracy: So like memoir style?
Kimberly Muller: Yeah, ish. It's hard. It's so hard. It's so much harder not writing fiction.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh yeah.
Kimberly Muller: And making it like my story and stuff like that. But it's a love story. But really it's about a love story about a 50-year-old woman falling in love with herself. It's what it is in a nutshell, but you know how all of your life experiences kind of bring you to a certain place.
Jennifer Tracy: Absolutely.
Kimberly Muller: Right?
Jennifer Tracy: Absolutely. That sounds great. I want to read that book.
Kimberly Muller: Yeah, I know. We all want to read that book. It's we're all going to read that book.
Jennifer Tracy: Yes. This is amazing. Okay, so you're falling in love with yourself. You've written a bunch of books. You're going to continue to write more. What do you see moving forward?
Kimberly Muller: I see, I've just had this conversation because I literally, someone just sat me down and was like, "Okay. But I want this," because I literally could write a kid's book every day. And I think I have like a stable of like 12, but they're not illustrated because, again, for me, that's the hardest part. We have lines warning, "Last night I swam with a shark," but I can't. My husband's so busy, I can't book him to take the pictures. He's just never available.
Kimberly Muller: So I actually, in the new year I've already set up, they've just set up a bunch of meetings with me with different illustrators, and I continue. I probably last week met with two illustrators, but I wish I could draw. I have one of my children actually trying to illustrate one of my books because I was like she's such an amazing artist. I'm like, oh, maybe this is like meant to be because that's the hardest part. I can keep writing them, but I need them to be brought to life for me, and that's really difficult.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. Well, and it's illustration is so specific in a way that when you're writing a script, or you're trying to produce a script, or direct a script, it's a little different. You can sort of bring it to life the way it's in your head, I guess, but you also have this, you can let it go a little bit because it's three-dimensional, in a way, when you're ... I don't know. Am I ... I don't know if I'm making sense, but-
Kimberly Muller: No. It does make sense because you should see my vision boards for all of my projects, because I don't ... I need to like ... You can't ... It's hard sometimes to describe.
Jennifer Tracy: Yes.
Kimberly Muller: And I am such an aesthetic person. And I am so visual, but I don't know how to draw. So it's challenging. But like anything in life, the most challenging things become the most rewarding, right?
Jennifer Tracy: Yes. And it forces us to go outside of our box, and ask for help, and help see through other people's eyes, and then eventually you find the perfect person, like you did.
Kimberly Muller: Yeah. And I think that's kind of what's happening now because I don't ... Literally, illustrators are coming to me now, which is amazing. And it might not be the right person for one project, but then I'm like, "Oh, wait a minute. I'm going to do this." And I'm working on a really cute little kids book using actually these guys, because this is one of my husband's photographs.
Jennifer Tracy: It's beautiful.
Kimberly Muller: And Sage Bond is an artist, and he pains on top of them. So I've written a book called The Wild Ones, and this is-
Jennifer Tracy: Kimberly's pointing to a beautiful, giant photograph of a giraffe. [crosstalk 00:36:20].
Kimberly Muller: Her name's Mitzi in the book.
Jennifer Tracy: That's amazing. And there's painted butterflies all around her that have been painted onto the photograph. It's stunning.
Kimberly Muller: The Wild Ones is basically Mitzi and two friends, an elephant and a lion. And they don't want to go to bed at night, and they all run away. And then they have these beautiful dreams with butterflies and stuff like that and realize, "Oh, I'm actually better at home."
Jennifer Tracy: So growing up, did you have a lot of ... Do you have siblings?
Kimberly Muller: Yeah, I do. I'm the oldest. I have a brother who's two years younger than me and a sister who's five and a half years younger than me.
Jennifer Tracy: Did you have a lot of magical experiences? Were you reading books a lot? What ... Because you just seem like you were like born on fairy dust or something. That's the feeling I get from you. Where did this come from?
Kimberly Muller: The dog trainer this morning said, "You're like a fairy child. You got to stop loving the dogs a little bit less." I'm like, "What do you mean?" He's like, "You need to tell them who's boss."
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, because they need you to be an alpha.
Kimberly Muller: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: I'm the same way with my dogs.
Kimberly Muller: I don't know. It's so funny because I feel like I grew up, and D.C.'s so conservative. I have a mom who was Martha Stewart before there was Martha Stewart, so she definitely was creative, and she did flowers at the vice president's house when we were growing up and things like that. And she was crafty and all of those things. So I think I definitely grew up with those things. And I laugh now. There's an amazing Einstein quote. He says that, "You actualize what you visualize."
Kimberly Muller: And I grew up in D.C. listening ... playing in my dollhouse and listening to the Beach Boys. And the only California I knew was La Jolla, because my uncle Billy lived there. And I would get to go there one week every summer. And it was amazing. And like it was he lived on the same block that Charles E. Shultz lived. And all the kids would all play together. And so I would go home and play in my dollhouse. And they all lived on this street, down the street from the creator.
Kimberly Muller: And they would listen to the Beach Boys. And I'm like, "Look, I manifested, and I have somehow ..." I never thought about living in California, but then all of a sudden, I find myself on the beaches of Southern California with three surfer girls. And I'm like, "Oh my God, I manifested that." And I think that there's a lot to be said for all of that, without even realizing it.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh, definitely.
Kimberly Muller: I think that I always wrote stories. And my mom says I said I wanted to be the next Judy Blume. So I did to that but then lost total track of that, like I think we all do in life. And now I try and get my children to read Judy Blume, and they look at me like I'm crazy and blubber, I guess. And Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret. doesn't sound the same.
Jennifer Tracy: I know. I mean, I have a boy, so it's ... But he doesn't want to do all the traditional stuff either. He's really into the Diary of a Wimpy Kid. And, look, I'm happy that he's into any books. But it's funny. I was just at the bookstore. You were talking earlier about the bookstore. I want to Barnes & Noble last night. And I hadn't been in a bookstore ... I used to live in bookstores, especially in college. I would just go hang out at the bookstore, or Virgin Records, which I don't even think exists anymore in like physical store.
Jennifer Tracy: But it was so lovely just to be like wandering the book aisles and just touching the books. Anyway, bought him The Chronicles of Narnia, the original. So I'm going to give it to him for Christmas. And I'm sure he'll look at it like it's a lump of coal. But I'm going to try to say like, "Let's read it together. Trust me, you're going to love it." But he's really into this just different ... I don't know. And it's fine. It's fine. I'm glad he's into books at all. But I relate to that. I relate to that.
Kimberly Muller: Yeah, it's hard. And my 14-year-old looks at me, she's like, "Mommy, we live in a different world. I get you grew up in that world, but this is not that world anymore." I'm like ... And she's right. I literally, they're like doing their research papers. They're like, "Well, how did you do it?" because the thought that I didn't have a computer or a cell phone, "How'd you call your parents?" "A pay phone." "What's that?" "How did you research your book?" I had encyclopedias in the hallway outside of all of the kids' bedrooms in my house growing up. "What's that? I had to Google what an encyclopedia looked like, and then felt bad for the poor encyclopedia salesmen who no longer have jobs." You know what I mean?
Jennifer Tracy: Right.
Kimberly Muller: It's just, it is; it's a different world, and my husband always says, "You just got to adapt." And we have to embrace it and figure out how it works in our life, because it's not changing. It's not going anywhere. And there are amazing things. Like, I have a love-hate relationship with Instagram, but I love to see my friends who live in New York and their kids growing up because at least you feel like you can connect with them. But even on my post today, I was like, "Are you there, Santa? It's me, Kimberly." So it's my ode to Judy Blume.
Jennifer Tracy: I love it, yeah.
Kimberly Muller: I mean, so, yeah, it's different.
Jennifer Tracy: It's way different.
Kimberly Muller: I mean, my girls look at me all the time, "We don't like reading. We're different." I'm like, "I know." But that's why The Paloma Peach, the middle-grade chapter book, I wrote, I think as my girls get older, I keep writing older books because they wanted to read YA, which I thought was not appropriate for my 11-year-olds. But the middle-grade was so boring. So I was trying to push it. And, again, I won't name names, but some very big publishers really want the book, and they wanted me to make her older. They said it was too sophisticated. I'm like, "But somebody made Y-"
Jennifer Tracy: That's the point.
Kimberly Muller: That's the point. They want me ... I'm like, I wrote about a character who lives outside of a box. I'm not going to put her in a box. So most likely I'll wind up self-publishing that too. Now I'm a little side-tracked because we're developing it into a television show. But I want her to be in a book also, for sure.
Jennifer Tracy: And reality is most kids who are 10, 11, even my nine-year-old, they are more sophisticated now. And they want to be more sophisticated. And, listen, my son is still very much my baby boy. And he is very cuddly and, "Mommy." So he has that. He still embraces is childhood. He's not wanting to like go out and get a job and be independent, but he does crave that, and it's a healthy movement for them at that age. That's a very crucial development. But it's so interesting. Then I think that's the role. And you probably experienced this in the movie business 100 times, like just you have an artist who's like, "No, no, no, but this is the voice. No, this is the voice." And then the business people, the publishers of the networks or whatever, "Well, this is what's selling." And you're like, "No. You don't know if this'll sell. Just make this."
Kimberly Muller: Well, it's one of the most challenging things for me because I'm still offered like, "Do you want to produce this? Come on. I'm going to take you ... I'm going to be the one who's going to take you out of retirement." You know what I'm mean?
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Kimberly Muller: "I'm going to be the one." I'm like, "Well, no. I'm going to produce my own things now, I feel like." But I do read certain things that I think are the most beautiful scripts I've read. And I know that those are not only the hardest ones to make. I mean, they're the most important messages, but it's also to get the studios and stuff to get behind it, it's really hard. I was so grateful yesterday coming out of like the network meeting with them because I pushed it because I don't know how not to push an envelope. And it's sophisticated. And 12-year-old are doing things that 12-year-olds are really doing.
Kimberly Muller: But a lot of networks don't want to show that. And they had two little notes, nothing to do with that. They were like, "Nope. The language is great. The feelings are great." And I was like, "Yes!" So I'm just hoping. And it's just so early on in the situation.
Jennifer Tracy: [crosstalk 00:43:54].
Kimberly Muller: But maybe.
Jennifer Tracy: Just maybe.
Kimberly Muller: Like anything, if you keep fighting hard enough for something, I believe that you can totally-
Jennifer Tracy: It's so great.
Kimberly Muller: ... change it.
Jennifer Tracy: Can I ask how many women were in the room, women in the network?
Kimberly Muller: It was actually, it was me and my partner, the two women, and then there was four women and two men.
Jennifer Tracy: Awesome! Love that. It is changing.
Kimberly Muller: It's changing. It's definitely changing.
Jennifer Tracy: That's awesome. Let me see what time we're at because ... Oh my gosh, yes. So we've come to the time where I ask you three questions that I ask every quest. And then ask a lightening round of questions.
Kimberly Muller: Okay. Great.
Jennifer Tracy: So it's really fun. What do you think about Kimberly when you hear the word "MILF?"
Kimberly Muller: I want a MILFshake.
Jennifer Tracy: So tell me about the MILFshake.
Kimberly Muller: I literally, when we opened Au Fudge, one of the things that I always wanted to have on the menu was a MILFshake. And I always thought it was one of those branding items that could end up being in 7-Elevens all across the world. You know what I mean?
Jennifer Tracy: Yes.
Kimberly Muller: Because, and to me the MILFshake had all the most amazing things that would make us ladies glow.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, I love it.
Kimberly Muller: But that was also because you were MILF, one of the things that I was like, "Okay, I'll say yes to that," because I thought it was so clever.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. It's just good to take that name back.
Kimberly Muller: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: You know?
Kimberly Muller: It is, and it's good to change like kind of what it is. I mean, not that it has a negative connotations at all. To me, it's positive.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. What's something you've changed your mind about recently?
Kimberly Muller: I can say no.
Jennifer Tracy: Yes.
Kimberly Muller: And it doesn't matter. I always cared so much what other people thought or if I was going to hurt their feelings. But now I just want to be surrounded with people who make me feel good and who ... You know?
Jennifer Tracy: And who understand and support you when you say no.
Kimberly Muller: Yeah, those are the people you want in your life.
Jennifer Tracy: Yes. How do you define success?
Kimberly Muller: Balance.
Jennifer Tracy: What does that look like?
Kimberly Muller: Where I sometimes, I don't know, if you're ... Sometimes I might be a little whatever, but when you're in the flow, when your days, you wake up in the morning and life just ... not that life is easy, because it's not, but even when challenges arise, you're in that place that you can just calmly kind of attack it, go at it, whatever. And we were talking a little bit about it before, but I think I was such a workaholic. Then I was a momaholic. And now I'm trying to like kind of regain. And then I think I became a little bit of a workaholic again, and now trying to maintain the balance of where I feel satisfied and like, this is enough for me and on all levels, from being a mom and having the work because I do enjoy working, but I don't want to be working all the time where it's making me, I come home and I'm a bitch, and I'm so stressed out that I'm no good to my family. And I think for sure I've been that in my life. If you ask my kids, they might tell you I'm still that in my life. But I feel like I'm achieving more of a balance in my life.
Jennifer Tracy: That's awesome. Okay, lightning round. Ocean or desert?
Kimberly Muller: Ocean.
Jennifer Tracy: Favorite junk food?
Kimberly Muller: Cheetos.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh my God, I love Cheetos. Now, this is very important.
Kimberly Muller: Or a donut, crunchy.
Jennifer Tracy: Ooh, crunchy donut.
Kimberly Muller: No, crunchy Cheeto. Were you going to ask the fluffy or the crunch?
Jennifer Tracy: Yes, crunchy or puffy?
Kimberly Muller: I like crunchy.
Jennifer Tracy: And what kind of donut?
Kimberly Muller: What I do with donut? I just like a real like the crispy-
Jennifer Tracy: Glazed?
Kimberly Muller: ... glazed. Yeah, crispy plain kettle glazed, whatever.
Jennifer Tracy: So good.
Kimberly Muller: Yeah, just the plain.
Jennifer Tracy: Have you gone to Danny Trejo's Donuts yet?
Kimberly Muller: No, but I've heard about it, and it's delicious, right?
Jennifer Tracy: First of all, they will Postmate. I mean, you can Postmate it. I've often, this is a splurge. This is so stupid. I can't believe I'm still sharing this. When my son has a sleepover, sometimes I'll surprise the kids and order the donuts to be delivered.
Kimberly Muller: Oh my God, I love that.
Jennifer Tracy: And it's so, it's just like they're gourmet donuts. They're incredible, and he has one that's like a tres leches.
Kimberly Muller: Oh, yum.
Jennifer Tracy: It's like a donut that's just been soaked in sweet milk. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. It's so good. It's my favorite thing.
Kimberly Muller: Now you're going to have me Postmating and like doing it.
Jennifer Tracy: I'm sorry.
Kimberly Muller: I mean, Postmates has really changed my world too.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh my God, it's the best.
Kimberly Muller: I love it.
Jennifer Tracy: It's the best.
Kimberly Muller: Dangerous.
Jennifer Tracy: It is dangerous. But it is also really helpful.
Kimberly Muller: I know.
Jennifer Tracy: Movies or Broadway show?
Kimberly Muller: Broadway show. I cry. I love the Broadway. I love Broadway. I mean, it's hard because I love both, but if I have to choose-
Jennifer Tracy: Me too. Daytime sex or nighttime sex?
Kimberly Muller: Daytime because I like a little spontaneity.
Jennifer Tracy: And for me, I'm asleep, especially now that it's dark early.
Kimberly Muller: Exactly.
Jennifer Tracy: When it's 5:00 or 6:00, I'm like, "Oh my God," it feels like it's 9:00 or 10:00.
Kimberly Muller: I know.
Jennifer Tracy: So I get really tired. Cat person or dog person?
Kimberly Muller: Both. I mean, if I have to choose, look, I have three cats, three dogs, and chickens. So I'm very ... I'm kind of balanced in that area too. But, I mean, if I had to choose, I'd probably say dogs.
Jennifer Tracy: And did the chickens give you eggs?
Kimberly Muller: They do.
Jennifer Tracy: Do you use the eggs? Ah, fresh eggs. There's nothing like it.
Kimberly Muller: They do.
Jennifer Tracy: So good.
Kimberly Muller: It's great, except that now the rats like them too. So I have to literally envision Templeton from Charlotte's Web, and that they have like a whole apartment complex under there. And they're all Templetons and stuff because otherwise I'll be so freaked out.
Jennifer Tracy: That might be another book that you have.
Kimberly Muller: Listen, I was just at the Kennedy Center at the ballet, and there was a mouse. In the box upstairs they let you have M&Ms, and, I mean, but this is what happens to me. So a mouse, it was intermission, and my husband left it, like a plastic cup with the ... We don't like plastic. It was not single-use plastic, but M&Ms on the ground. And a mouse came into the box. And I literally in one second had the entire children's book about the mouse how lived in the-
Jennifer Tracy: Of course you did.
Kimberly Muller: ... royal Albert Theater at the Kennedy Center and wanted to be a ballerina because ... But I need someone to illustrate it.
Jennifer Tracy: Well, you got those appointments set up.
Kimberly Muller: Exactly.
Jennifer Tracy: You're going to find that person. That's amazing. Have you ever worn a unitard?
Kimberly Muller: Yeah. Definitely. And in fact, I offered up and ordered a silver unitard for my 14-year-old who is going to be an alien this last past Halloween. And she looked at me like I was literally from outer space.
Jennifer Tracy: You're like, "What could be more alien and perfect than silver unitard?"
Kimberly Muller: It was the perfect costume, and she looked at me like I was the alien.
Jennifer Tracy: Hilarious. Shower or bathtub?
Kimberly Muller: Bathtub.
Jennifer Tracy: Ice cream or chocolate?
Kimberly Muller: It's so hard. I guess chocolate. But I love ice cream.
Jennifer Tracy: So both.
Kimberly Muller: Both.
Jennifer Tracy: On a scale of one to ten, how good are you at ping pong?
Kimberly Muller: Five.
Jennifer Tracy: What is your biggest pet peeve?
Kimberly Muller: People who aren't authentic.
Jennifer Tracy: If you could push a button and it would make everyone in the world 7% happier but it would also place a world-wide ban on all hairstyling products, would you push it?
Kimberly Muller: Yes.
Jennifer Tracy: Superpower choice: invisibility, ability to fly, or super strength?
Kimberly Muller: Ability to fly.
Jennifer Tracy: Would you rather have a penis where your tailbone is or a third eye?
Kimberly Muller: A third eye. I have a third eye. We all have a third eye.
Jennifer Tracy: Like a literal one.
Kimberly Muller: Oh, a third eye.
Jennifer Tracy: Yep. Okay. No penises for you, then.
Kimberly Muller: No penises for me.
Jennifer Tracy: What was the name of your first pet?
Kimberly Muller: Not there, anyway. Dorgy.
Jennifer Tracy: What was the name of the street you grew up on?
Kimberly Muller: Well, I lived on a few, but Goodview.
Jennifer Tracy: Dorgy Goodview?
Kimberly Muller: Dorgy Goodview.
Jennifer Tracy: Okay, that's your porn name, as you know. So Dorgy Goodview, I mean, what comes to me is like he's a gangsta in the New York in the '20s.
Kimberly Muller: Dorgy Goodview and a lot of gold chains.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, and he's got a Tommy Gun. And he's got a Rolls-Royce.
Kimberly Muller: Yeah. I love it.
Jennifer Tracy: And a red-headed broad right behind him.
Kimberly Muller: Yes.
Jennifer Tracy: And she smokes Pall Malls. Oh my God, I love it.
Kimberly Muller: Actually, he follows her.
Jennifer Tracy: There you go. Oh my gosh, Kimberly Muller, you're just a dream. Thank you so much.
Kimberly Muller: Thank you so much.
Jennifer Tracy: This is such a treat.
Kimberly Muller: It was fun. Thank you.
Jennifer Tracy: Thanks so much for listening, guys. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Kimberly. Next week on the show, we have May Lindstrom, who is the genius behind May Lindstrom Skincare, among many other things, wonderful conversation with her. So tune in for that. Also, if you want to grab your Seven Habits of Baller MILFs, it's a little ditty that I wrote, and it's on my website, milfpodcast.com, go there to grab it. It's very entertaining, just something that I learned about the habits of women who are successful in achieving and really sinking into their authentic MILFiness, and their authentic selves, and their authentic power really. It's the empowerment piece, because that's what a MILF is, I think. Anyway, thanks so much for listening, guys. I can't wait to talk to you next week. And I hope you have a wonderful weekend.