Jennifer P.: More than 20 years ago is when I really started to get honest about my hearing loss, or maybe when it really progressed. I was in acting school, and I would notice I just couldn't hear anything, but I was in such denial, I was so ashamed, I felt broken, I didn't want to tell anyone. And then it got worse and worse.
Jennifer P.: And all the years of waitressing I would squat down at tables, I did everything so I could lipread. I think that's where I got really, really good at lipreading, all the years of working in that restaurant with bad acoustics.
Announcer: You're listening to the MILF Podcast. This is the show where we talk about motherhood and sexuality, with amazing women with fascinating stories to share on the joys of being a milf. Now here's your host, the milfiest milf I know, Jennifer Tracy.
Jennifer Tracy: Hey guys. Welcome back to the show. This is MILF Podcast, the show where we talk about motherhood, sexuality, entrepreneurship and everything in between. I'm Jennifer Tracy, your host.
Jennifer Tracy: I really hope you guys enjoyed my conversation last week with Wendy Miller. She is one of my new found favorite people. I just love her, and that podcast episode was very entertaining for me to record and to listen to several times over after I got the edit back. And also, just a reminder for you to check out her podcast, Sex Ed The Musical anywhere you listen to podcasts. It's really fun.
Jennifer Tracy: Here we are. It's the end of April. What the F? I sound like a broken record, but it just never ceases to amaze me how quickly the time goes.
Jennifer Tracy: Today's guest is a really special friend of mine. Jennifer Pastiloff is someone who was a waitress at the Newsroom Café, which was a main staple of L.A. dinning for years, and they closed not too long ago. I think there's something else in its place on Robertson Boulevard across from The Ivy, the famed Ivy restaurant.
Jennifer Tracy: And Jenn was just so friendly, and amazing, and wonderful, and we just all became friends with her, and we would go... I was in my early 20s, and my girlfriends and I would go and have dinner there, and have lunch there, and Jenn was always there, and always working.
Jennifer Tracy: And then I ran into her several years later, when we were both getting our eyebrows done in Beverly Hills. I said, "Oh my God, how are you?" She said, "I'm amazing. I'm teaching yoga all over the world. My whole life has changed." And she just looked so bright and so happy. We didn't really have time to get into all of it, but I went and looked her up and I got to see what she was doing. That was maybe 10 years ago, eight years ago, something like that.
Jennifer Tracy: So I've been following her, and then when I did the podcast, she's been on my brain to ask her. And I asked her and she immediately said yes, and we've reconnected, and it was just such a soul sister moment. She's got an incredible story and she has a book coming out, June 4th, On Being Human. I've pre-ordered mine. I can't wait to get it in the mail. I'm so excited.
Jennifer Tracy: And being a writer myself, I know what it takes to write a book and it's not a small thing, so I'm incredibly proud of her. Jennifer wouldn't share this because she's not going to advertise it, but she's incredibly, deeply, deeply generous in her service to people. So not only does she do these amazing retreats all over the world where people go, and they do yoga, and they do writing, and they do emotional work and just really tap into the joy of being human, she is very philanthropic. And we do talk about it, because I asked her about it a little bit in the interview.
Jennifer Tracy: She gets scholarships for women to come on these retreats, who wouldn't otherwise be able to afford it. She's constantly making people aware through her social media about, "This person needs help. They're sick and they can't pay their medical bills." And it's very specific, and it's very just from her heart, because she has a huge heart.
Jennifer Tracy: It's just such an honor to know her, and I feel like we just need more of that in the world. Jenn is just such a bright light, and Jenn, I love you so much. I'm so glad you're here, in the world. Here's my interview with Jennifer Pastiloff.
Jennifer Tracy: Hi, Jenn.
Jennifer P.: Hi, Jenn.
Jennifer Tracy: Jenn squared, it's Jenn squared. Thank you so much for being on the show. I'm so excited to have you.
Jennifer P.: Thank you so much for sitting on my living room floor, and sitting right across from me so I could read your lips. It makes it so much easier for me.
Jennifer Tracy: I'm so happy.
Jennifer P.: Thank you.
Jennifer Tracy: And I am holding in my hands, which feels very special because I'm not going to get my pre-ordered copy until June 4th, but I'm holding in my hands a copy of your book.
Jennifer P.: You are. They call it a galley. It's an advanced copy.
Jennifer Tracy: That's beautiful.
Jennifer P.: That's pretty amazing.
Jennifer Tracy: So I'm just going to read the title of it because I want to. On Being Human: A Memoir of Waking Up, Living Real, and Listening Hard. Jennifer Pastiloff.
Jennifer P.: Yep.
Jennifer Tracy: So can you tell us a little bit about this book?
Jennifer P.: Yeah. It's funny. I've been doing this Q&A on Instagram, because I realized late to the party that you could do that. You just post, "Ask me anything," and we're having fun with that. And someone said, "What's the synopsis of your book?"
Jennifer Tracy: Oh God. A writer's most hated question.
Jennifer P.: Yeah. But I went on video and I said, "Someone who wanted to die. That would be me. Who didn't. That would be me." And it's the truth. So it's not like I end up this happy all the time, perfect, amazing life, in my big house. No. But I found a way to put one foot in front of the other and deal with my depression, and talk about things, and keep going. So it's the keeping and the going. It's my workshops and my book.
Jennifer P.: And it talks a lot about grief, losing my dad at a very young age, and how that affected my whole life, and having an invisible disability, and a whole bunch of other things.
Jennifer P.: My friend, I had dinner with him the other day. He's this wonderful actor named Holt McCallany. He has a show on Netflix now called Mindhunter, shameless plug for that, but he read it and he's like, "It functions as three things. It's a memoir, it's kind of self-help, and it's an advertisement for your retreats." Which it is, and not on purpose, but I use that as sort of the through-line, the-
Jennifer Tracy: Your wealth of experience is from that. I mean, of course.
Jennifer P.: Yeah. So it's a hodgepodge, hybrid, which is my favorite thing. Doesn't fit inside a box, which makes me proud.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. It's beautiful. I can't wait to read it. I'm so excited for you. Congratulations.
Jennifer P.: I'm excited. I can't wait until the... that's paperback, because it's the galley, but the real book will be hardback.
Jennifer Tracy: That's what I'm getting in the mail, right? When it comes out.
Jennifer P.: Thank you. Thank you for pre-ordering it.
Jennifer Tracy: Of course. I went right on you guys, and you can go on Amazon right now and pre-order it. In fact, I'll include a link to that exact link in the show notes of this show.
Jennifer P.: Yeah. Amazon, or Barnes & Noble, or IndieBound if you want to support an independent bookstore. I didn't know before I got in this world how important pre-orders were. I had no idea. I mean, they are everything.
Jennifer Tracy: It's a big deal.
Jennifer P.: Yeah, and especially for a first time author.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Jennifer P.: It's not something I take lightly, how many people have pre-ordered. I'm just floored and so grateful.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. It's super exciting. So amazing. I mean, it's an amazing accomplishment to write a book. So I want to go... so many things you already just mentioned like invisible disability, your father dying when you were young. Where did you grow up?
Jennifer P.: Isn't it funny? I think about it. I was born in Philadelphia and I grew up in South Jersey, a town right across the bridge from Philly, called Pennsauken. And then my father died. My mother relocated my sister and I out here, to Santa Monica, just a few blocks away of where I live now, to start over, with two little girls. And then about four or five years into our move, decided, which at the time I thought she was insane truly, to move us back to New Jersey. So I move back to Cherry Hill this time, which is sort of, everyone listening is probably like, "I know the Cherry Hill Mall."
Jennifer P.: And then I went to NYU and then I my mom, God bell her, moved back to California again, when I was 20. So when I was 21 I came... took a semester off and be near my mom. I was going through a really hard time, and that semester turned into... what year are we in now? Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: 20-something. Yeah.
Jennifer P.: The long answer to your question is I grew up really both. I still always consider East Coast, but now I've actually spent more time on the West Coast, California.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. But you do have a connection to New York. We've talked about this before, but I've seen it even on your Instagram. It's like, when you get to go there it feels like home to you.
Jennifer P.: I'd much rather live there. I just can't afford it. I mean, I'm not going to lie. I'm very grateful I have this great apartment, that I have a rent control, and I've lived for a really long time, so I'm able to have a certain lifestyle here that I would not be able to have anywhere else I don't think. But New York, I just feel more alive there. Having said that, I do go in spurts, so I don't know if living there in the winter would... I might change my mind rapidly.
Jennifer Tracy: You might. It's the real deal. I mean, the winter there is substantial. Not that you don't know that, but I'm just saying, because I thought that too. I took my son to New York a couple years ago to visit friends and he had never been and he was just like, "This is magic." We stayed right on Central Park. Our friends live on Central Park. So Central Park was the backyard, but living there is a different deal, and we wouldn't live on Central Park if we lived there. We would have to live in-
Jennifer P.: But see, that's where I want to live-
Jennifer Tracy: That would be in the city-
Jennifer P.: It's like if I can't do that-
Jennifer Tracy: Of course, it's gorgeous. Yeah.
Jennifer P.: But yeah, so my heart's there, East Coast.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. But you get to travel a lot now because of your work.
Jennifer P.: I do. I do. I feel like I live on an airplane. Oddly, I somehow still don't have that many airplane miles, so if anyone listening knows what I'm doing wrong... but I lead these workshops, these On Being Human workshops and retreats all over, so I spend a lot of time traveling, which I love, but now that I have an almost three-year-old and I don't get to bring him all the time, I love less because I hate being away from him.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, that's hard.
Jennifer P.: It is really hard, but I have no choice. It's the only way that I make any money right now.
Jennifer Tracy: Right. Right now, until June 4th.
Jennifer P.: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: And then this book is going to be out, among other things, among other things. So you grew up sort of bi-coastaly, and then you landed here 21, and staid.
Jennifer P.: Yeah. Maybe that's when you met me. I know, you didn't meet me that long ago, but-
Jennifer Tracy: Almost that long ago though. Yeah, we were 23, 24 when we met.
Jennifer P.: Okay.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Jennifer P.: So yeah, I started working at the Newsroom, which... I was going to say, "Readers." Listeners, that's where we met. I was her server for many, many, many, many years. I started working there when I was 21, and I worked there until I was 34 I think.
Jennifer Tracy: It doesn't even exist anymore-
Jennifer P.: It doesn't even exist.
Jennifer Tracy: There's something else there. Yeah.
Jennifer P.: Which pains me actually-
Jennifer Tracy: I know-
Jennifer P.: ... because I crave the food.
Jennifer Tracy: The food was really good. The food was really good.
Jennifer P.: I crave that Tuna DeLuxe.
Jennifer Tracy: So you worked there, and then I hadn't seen you in a while, and I ran into you at Damone Roberts, which is an eyebrow salon-
Jennifer P.: The eyebrow king.
Jennifer Tracy: The eyebrow king. The eyebrow king. And I said, "Jenn," I said, "What are you doing?" You said, "I'm teaching toga all over the world. My whole life has blown up. I'm so happy. I've never been happier. I'm so happy." And you were just lit up.
Jennifer P.: That's amazing.
Jennifer Tracy: It was so incredible.
Jennifer P.: I was probably drunk. No, I'm just kidding. Totally I was not. I was not. I was not.
Jennifer Tracy: You weren't that kind of lit.
Jennifer P.: I know. I was kidding. I'm totally kidding. Yeah. I mean, especially anyone who knew me from that... you know, I think of it as another lifetime ago when I was working there. I was so depressed and hated myself so much, so it felt like such a victory when I'd run into someone that knew me from then like, "Look, I made it! I didn't die. I made it out. I escaped." Not necessarily from the restaurant because Lord knows, tons of my friends still work in a restaurant, but escaped from that self-hatred, how deep in it I was.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. It's insidious. I know, it colors everything. So how did you do it?
Jennifer P.: The truth is antidepressants. I should've... I hate the word, "Should." See that pillow over there? "Don't should all over yourself"?
Jennifer Tracy: "Don't should all over yourself."
Jennifer P.: I should've gone on when I was much, much, much younger. I probably wouldn't have dropped out of NYU. I went to a therapist, and he suggested that I go on meds, and I thought he was an asshole that first session, but he was right. He was kind of an A-hole but he was right. And I went, and it wasn't like a magic fix, or it wasn't anything except all of a sudden there was like a pinprick of light where there was nothing, and all of a sudden there was possibility, where I was doing a ton of yoga, and my friends all suggested I become a yoga teacher, which sounded like the most unappealing thing on the planet.
Jennifer P.: But then I took the meds, and about two weeks in I thought, "Maybe I will just take a yoga teacher training," and it really was only because I thought, "This may be my way out of the restaurant," just because I felt like I was stuck and there was no way out no matter what.
Jennifer P.: So it immobilized me where I was immobilized before. It was just these tiny little moments of hopefulness and of... I'll tell you the biggest thing was I noticed maybe three days have passed where I hadn't obsessed on my body, because it used to be that literally every thought in my head was, "I'm fat, I'm fat, I'm a monster. I'm fat." I couldn't even be having a conversation with you because I was in my head.
Jennifer P.: So maybe a day, two days, three days passed. That's when I thought, "Oh my God, something's shifting." So that's why I wish I had gone on earlier, because it would've helped me. But those meds led me to be able to take the teacher training, and the teacher training... then I started teaching yoga, and then I started teaching yoga, and I found this thing that I'm good at, and combined it with other things I was good at. And confidence begets confidence I think, or I know.
Jennifer P.: And I started really thinking outside the box, but I had to get that confidence first. I felt for so long so unworthy when I worked at the Newsroom. And anyone listening, this restaurant was in [inaudible 00:15:59] was like the place to be, but it was very Hollywood-y, and at the time I was sort of pretending to be an actress, and everyone coming in there was important, in quotes. Having a meeting, making a movie, starring in a movie.
Jennifer P.: And I felt invisible, which now is in hindsight silly, because I'm the same exact person I was, and I was defining myself that was really, but-
Jennifer Tracy: But we do that. That's what we do until we... I mean, I'll speak for myself, until I was able to let go of that old story that wasn't even mine...
Jennifer P.: 100%. Call your bullshit stories.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. My bullshit stories. That's not mine. That's someone else's story. I don't even know whose it is. It could be some person I never met.
Jennifer P.: I know. I wish I could go, sometimes... I mean, not terribly. I'm not going to go start working in a restaurant again, but sometimes I do think, "If I can go in the me of now and the body of now and the who I am now, and go back, it would be such a different experience."
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. I love those movies... sorry to interrupt you. I love those movies where the person goes back to high school as their older self, but they're in their younger body or whatever it is, and it's just profound because it's that exact thing. Like, the stuff that you think you're going to care about, or the stuff that you cared about in high school doesn't matter.
Jennifer P.: Yeah. And you know, not everybody equates their job with their worth, or their body weight, with their worth. I was particularly vulnerable to that, and then being in that particular restaurant too in Hollywood, it just fed on all of my insecurity. And not to say every moment was miserable.
Jennifer Tracy: So you got your teacher training certification, you started teaching yoga, but then what happened? Tell me about the synergy of this thing that became... I don't want to call it life coaching. I don't know what to call it.
Jennifer P.: I don't either.
Jennifer Tracy: It's a magic thing that you do. It's the Jenn Pastiloff thing. It's unique onto itself.
Jennifer P.: Charlie calls me, "Mommy Pastiloff." I know, we have different last names, so I say, "What's mine?" He says, "Mommy Pastiloff." He drops the T, "Mommy Pastiloff."
Jennifer P.: So I started teaching yoga, and I started hustling at the Newsroom. I got these little business cards with me and I started dropping them on every table with the check. I mean, not I think like the hutzpah that I had, but I got a lot of private clients that way, which I don't do that anymore, but at the time it was really good money.
Jennifer P.: So I started teaching yoga, and then I decided, I said this statement out loud, which I laugh at now. I go, "I want to be bi-coastal." And I think it was because of how I grew up. And everyone laughs now. They're like, "You are." Yeah, if you want to call... I stay on my friends' sofa when I go there. I go there a lot. It's not like I have an apartment there.
Jennifer P.: So I said, "I want to be bi-coastal, and I'm going to do a workshop." And I had no idea what that meant first of all. So I had been hired by some life coaches, like real life coaches, to be the yoga teacher for their retreat, and I had just become a yoga teacher. I felt like the biggest con artist of all time because they were hiring me. A friend referred me.
Jennifer P.: So I went and I watched what they were doing, and I thought, "I think I could do this, something like this." So I decided I want to lead a workshop. I had no idea what I was doing or what that even meant.
Jennifer P.: And somehow I went back home, I went to Philly, and I went to this studio to take a class, and I said, "I'd like to do a workshop here," and they said yes. I had no idea what was going to be on. I had been listening to a lot of Wayne Dyer at the time. He talked about manifesting so I called it in the very beginning What Are You Manifesting In Your Life?
Jennifer P.: And it was very much just all yoga, except I brought sticky notes. Some people wrote what they're manifesting on the sticky notes, but it was mainly just yoga.
Jennifer P.: Now, the thing to know is I never did want to be a yoga teacher. So as I started doing this, I started writing more, and putting myself out there on the internet, and I started developing an audience. And I started to keep doing these workshops, and the yoga part kind of started falling away.
Jennifer P.: And what I started doing was being more honest and focusing more on vulnerability, and telling the truth, and I just started getting more and more confident that I didn't have to make it a yoga thing.
Jennifer P.: So it used to worry, well, if I didn't call it a yoga thing, how will I get people in the room, and I don't worry about that anymore. It took a long time, but I just don't. I don't call my retreats yoga retreats. I mean, sometime people are there and they will call it that, but you'll never hear me say, "I'm leading a yoga retreat in France." So in time, I got confident enough.
Jennifer P.: And now the yoga is there. It's just a way to get people more open, but sometimes people come in a wheelchair, people come who've never done yoga, or who don't feel like doing it, and it's really just a way to take off some armor. But it took really caring less what people think. Like, I'm just going to make this thing up.
Jennifer P.: And the synergy came from putting things together that I was good at. And one is, despite my hearing loss, listening, and making people feel really comfortable, and safe, and at home, something I've always been good at. Terrible waitress, really good at that.
Jennifer P.: So I was able to cultivate this feeling in these rooms. And I just started getting creative, and using that, those gifts, and the writing, and the things I had learned waiting tables, and put it together.
Jennifer Tracy: Your wealth of experience.
Jennifer P.: Pretty much. And deciding that... I made up the thing called The Just a Box, which is I'm just a mom, I'm just a waitress.
Jennifer Tracy: Totally.
Jennifer P.: And I was like, "Well, fuck the box." So I made up something that doesn't fit in kind of any Just a Box. And here I am doing it, and doing really well, and I still don't know what to call myself, or how, but it's working.
Jennifer P.: And I always say to people in my workshops, "I hope that this inspires you not to do what I'm doing necessarily, but that you can create something that doesn't necessarily fit in any stupid box, or anything that anyone's told you." And that is what I never realized, in my 20s, early 30s.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. Well, it's hard to realize that too. And at the time, because we're the same age, there wasn't really... I mean, maybe there was and I just didn't notice it, but there weren't people really modeling that, not like they are today.
Jennifer P.: I think you're right, but I also don't know, because the internet wasn't so big. Now everything is so accessible, there's an overload of information, so the minute someone's doing something, we find out about it. So I think there probably were people out there doing stuff that we just didn't have access because Instagram wasn't around.
Jennifer Tracy: Yes, that's true. That's true.
Jennifer P.: Thank God, right?
Jennifer Tracy: I'm sure they were. I'm sure they were, but you didn't have that daily dose of it like we do now.
Jennifer P.: No, yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: Which can be both empowering, but also disempowering, depending on your Instagram use, but that's a whole other podcast.
Jennifer P.: Agreed.
Jennifer Tracy: I want to talk about your hearing loss, because I really don't know how that came to be, if you were born with it, or? Can you tell me about that?
Jennifer P.: Yeah. Right now, this is actually heaven because we have these headphones on and then like through the mic, so I wish everything sounded like this, this clear. But I think I always had hearing loss. I didn't know as a child. I was always told I didn't pay attention, the classic things we hear, but I always had tinnitus, which the tinnitus... I don't know which is worse, my hearing loss or the tinnitus. The tinnitus is... what's so hard about it is it's maddening. It really is. Like, it's a form of torture. So especially when I don't have my hearing aids in, it's so loud.
Jennifer Tracy: It's basically a constant ringing?
Jennifer P.: It's a ringing, it's a humming, it's unbearable. So the hearing aids make everything else louder, so that the tinnitus isn't so... I still hear it, but it's not... you know. But when I don't have them in, sometimes I just like... I often wonder how I make it through each day, because it is so maddening, and grinding, and it's torturous. It really is like a form of torture, and that will never go away, and that never does go away.
Jennifer P.: So I always had it, and I didn't know. The only thing I remember, and I didn't realize this until about eight years ago or something, I used to make this sound when I was a child, when I was concentrating, like... I don't want to make it, it's so obnoxious, but this droning sound. And people made fun of me, so I stopped.
Jennifer P.: But what I was doing was trying to mimic the sound in my head. And I didn't realize that until about eight years ago, and it made me really sad. I was like, "That's why I made that noise. I was mimicking the sound in my head." I never talked about it, I never understood.
Jennifer P.: So more than 20 years ago is when I really started to get honest about my hearing loss, or maybe when it really progressed. I was in acting school, and I would notice, I just couldn't hear anything, but I was in such denial, I was so ashamed. I felt broken. I didn't want to tell anyone, and then it got worse and worse.
Jennifer P.: Like, all the years of waitressing I would squat down at tables, I did everything so I could lipread. I think that's where I got really, really good at lipreading, all the years of working in that restaurant with bad acoustics.
Jennifer P.: But it's progressively gotten worse, so I was not born deaf with a capital D. It's progressed, slowly gotten worse, and now without my hearing aids I can't hear. It just sounds like gurgles, underwater language. And with them I can hear, but I still have to read lips.
Jennifer P.: So if I'm looking the other way, I won't hear you. I might hear a little sound, but I can't make it out. My hearing aids are amazing and they're Bluetooth, so when I'm on the phone, it streams right into my ear.
Jennifer Tracy: That's awesome.
Jennifer P.: Yeah. So they're high tech and really great.
Jennifer Tracy: That's great. The first question I'm think is, does insurance cover them?
Jennifer P.: No. No.
Jennifer Tracy: Because I knew the answer was no, which is maddening.
Jennifer P.: Yeah. How I got these a few years ago was through someone did a Go Fund Me, and I was able to get them. Yeah, it was one of the first times where strangers all over were leaving money, like, "Jenn helps me with her writing," or, "She's helped me with her workshop" to really... I had to sit with that, and it was humbling. And just in a few days I got enough money so I could get these.
Jennifer Tracy: That's incredible.
Jennifer P.: I know. I could get these to-
Jennifer Tracy: And they're a game-changer.
Jennifer P.: Yeah, completely. And yet, they're already now something years old, so every few years, you know...
Jennifer Tracy: There's going to be an upgrade or something-
Jennifer P.: Better, yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, of course.
Jennifer P.: Yep. And now my sister has hearing aids. So it's definitely something hereditary.
Jennifer Tracy: So I want to talk about your childhood and your dad passing away. So he was 38 when he died. How old were you?
Jennifer P.: Eight.
Jennifer Tracy: My God.
Jennifer P.: Yeah. So he was 38, I was eight. So yeah, 38 was a hard year. In my head, as a child, I always thought 38 was-
Jennifer Tracy: The end.
Jennifer P.: The end, yeah. But yeah, it...
Jennifer Tracy: It was sudden. He died of heart failure?
Jennifer P.: He had a stroke. He basically had hardening of the arteries, and he apparently had the body of a 90-year-old man. He was 38. My dad smoked four packs of Kools a day. My father did uppers and downers, and ultimately it was the drugs that killed him.
Jennifer P.: But yeah, it was sudden. It was sudden, sudden, and it was the event of my life, which shaped everything. And my mom was only 34 with two little girls, and did the best she could.
Jennifer P.: It's something that I think it's important to talk about, losing a parent so young, how it affects your whole life, and how grief metabolizes or it doesn't, and affects... I ended up trying to deal with it by becoming anorexic later in life, and all these ways, because I never cried when my dad died. I just said I don't care. So I just locked everything in my body.
Jennifer P.: And now the work of my life is unlocking it and helping other people unlock theirs, and learning how to be in their body.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. That's intense.
Jennifer P.: Yeah. I'm sad my dad never got to meet my son.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. But it is true that grief does I feel like get locked in our bodies. I recently had a loss. One of my best friends took her own life in October, and I was in fight or flight mode when it happened. I guess I cried. I don't know if I cried, but I was just going and calling the family, and helping her husband deal with stuff, and prepping the memorial.
Jennifer Tracy: And then it wasn't until about a month after the memorial, which was a month and a half after she died, that I ended up hitting my head on a pole, because I do pole dancing class for fun, and I hit it so hard and I cried for like two hours after I hit it. I probably had a concussion and I should've gone to the hospital but I didn't.
Jennifer Tracy: But it was just like that physical, like my body needed to hit itself on the pole, and release that grief.
Jennifer P.: Completely. And then it feels like... you know, I've been around people who do stuff like that and they're were like, "Well, I can stop," and it's scary to them. "Why can't I stop?" It's like an uncorking.
Jennifer P.: And unfortunately, the longer we buried shit in our body, the harder it is to uncork, and the more damaging it is. So I really encourage people to... what's the thing [inaudible 00:31:02] feel all the feels, and then all the things that I still struggle with and then I never knew how to do.
Jennifer Tracy: Well, yeah. I was in a support group. The topic was kind of meandering, but something was mentioned about basically we were all talking about how we'll do anything to avoid pain, avoid emotional pain. Anything. Nd it's just like, oh my God, yeah, that described my entire life. Even I haven't had another drink, or a drug in 20 years, but I still would do anything to avoid pain. It doesn't have to do with alcohol. It's like trying to avoid that emotional discomfort that I'm trying to teach my kid how to tolerate on a daily basis because it's part of life. It's just part of life. There's going to be pain.
Jennifer Tracy: Yes, we have fear, we have instincts, we have intuition to keep us safe. You don't walk across the street at a certain time, you don't walk down that creepy dark alley. Certain things like that. But emotionally speaking, and relationally speaking, it's like the things that I do to keep myself safe... or, I don't do as much anymore, but I look at that, like starving myself because I thought I was not thin enough.
Jennifer Tracy: When I look at pictures at myself at that age, 20, 23, 24, I'm like, "I was gorgeous. What was I even worried about? What was I even thinking about?"
Jennifer P.: There was this woman at the gym this morning. I started working with the trainer, which is great-
Jennifer Tracy: I love that you're doing that. It's so inspiring.
Jennifer P.: Yeah. I mean, I can't really afford it, but I get a discount because I work at Equinox and it's good because it's helping me shift. I remember when I was so sick, if anyone would ever say, "You look healthy," or, "You look strong," I would want to die. And now when people are like, "You look strong," it's a compliment. I'm shifting how I look at myself and how I see myself, and getting stronger is great.
Jennifer P.: There was this woman at the gym and she was doing something, I don't remember what, and she kind of got near me and I said, "Is what you're doing how you got such a good butt?" Obviously I like butts. I complemented yours. And she took up her hip and she was like, "Oh my God, are you joking?" And I said, "No." I was literally looking at her for an hour. She goes, "I just had a baby and I'm like... look at this." And she started pointing out all this stuff, and I was flabbergasted because honestly I've been sitting here admiring her and I just thought, "Man, this is what we do."
Jennifer P.: So I told her this quote of mine that I'm going to tell you right now and you're going to probably nod your head in agreement, which is, "Take a picture of your face and remember that in 10-years time you'll be amazed at how gorgeous you were. Be amazed now." Right?
Jennifer P.: Have you ever not found a picture of yourself from whenever and gone, "I was so cute." And you go back to that, go back in time, in that moment you were there like, "I'm so fat. I'm ugly, I'm not enough," whatever.
Jennifer P.: I don't know why we don't remember that more.
Jennifer Tracy: I know. It's so true. It's so true.
Jennifer P.: Yeah. And this woman today... I mean, it was just so hilarious because I thought, "Wow, if we can only see ourselves how other people see us."
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. Yeah.
Jennifer P.: And then avoiding pain, which I think it's a human impulse, because no one wants to, but knowing that it won't kill us and that it will pass...
Jennifer Tracy: Totally. And I point that out to my kid all the time. When he goes through something hard emotionally, or in general but mainly emotionally, and he's very sensitive, my lik Cancer boy, he's very emotional, very sensitive...
Jennifer P.: I love that.
Jennifer Tracy: And he will go through something, and then when it's done... and someone told me this. I think it was maybe our [inaudible 00:34:46], our baby class teacher or something, but to point out after they've calmed down, to say, "I'm so proud of you, of how you just navigated that for yourself emotionally."
Jennifer P.: I love that.
Jennifer Tracy: "You're safe now, and you got through that. Yes, I'm here to hold you, to hold space and love you always," and I can see that he gets it. And I was never given that space. God bless my parents, they did the best they could, but it was basically like, "Don't cry. Don't be upset." Like, don't feel your feelings.
Jennifer P.: Right. Well, I think that's very different now. I mean, I'm sure there were some parents that were more hippie to be back in the day, but it is different now. I hope.
Jennifer Tracy: Definitely. I mean, I think... well, we live in L.A. so if it gets a little [crosstalk 00:35:29]. But I do think there's more awareness around that, in child rearing. And also these kids are just so... I mean, your son is so little he probably doesn't have YouTube yet, but-
Jennifer P.: Are you joking? He's calls it ITube. Because obviously I win the shittiest parent of the world award because I let him have so much iPad. I mean, he knows how to navigate-
Jennifer Tracy: My son watches constant-
Jennifer P.: Yeah, but my son's two. He knows how to navigate, I know I call ITube, YouTube. He's better at working the phone than I am. It's so crazy.
Jennifer P.: Now he's getting a little better because he'll watch, pop a channel, jus watch a show instead of just scroll, scroll, scroll. Because I noticed it was making him kind of monster because if something immediate didn't go his way, he started hitting the phone, or the iPad, and it'd create this immediate gratification thing which we all kind of have, but don't want my two-year-old doing that.
Jennifer P.: So yes, he has YouTube/ITube.
Jennifer Tracy: I love that you call it ITube. That's brilliant.
Jennifer P.: Well, he does. I'm not going to lie to you. No bullshit motherhood, right? I'm not going to lie, especially when I'm by myself sometimes, I let him have the Pad.
Jennifer Tracy: Absolutely. My son, I got him a... his PS4 is at his dad's house, and at my house he has a PS4-
Jennifer P.: I don't even know what that is.
Jennifer Tracy: It's a Play Station. I love how I gesture with my thumbs like gaming thing. I don't even know how to use it really. And then he has a Wii, which is Nintendo. So we have both, and if he goes in on the Play Station and plays Fortnite which is an online thing where they can have headphones on and play with other friends, they hook up and can hear each other, I'm like, "Oh my God, yes, I can work for two hours."
Jennifer Tracy: But I'm okay with that. I know he's safe, I know where he is, I know he's with friends, and it's okay. I mean, I'm sure there's the judging mommy brigade that like, "You let your son play," but it's fine.
Jennifer P.: I'm pretty good at not... and I don't know if it's because I had a child when I was older, or because I've been doing this work for so long, but I'm pretty good at not giving a shit, especially with the mom stuff.
Jennifer P.: This morning, my mother-in-law who you just met, she said she... it's interesting, because she asked me some questions about anorexia. She read my book and she asked me... what did she say? She came in the kitchen and she said something like, "You worry about your weight, don't you?" And I said, "I don't..." and I really pause to consider the question. I said, "No, I don't." And I said, "Worry isn't the right word." I said, "You read my book, right?" So I said, "It's way deeper than that." And then I was explaining anorexia, talking to her about that, and she asked me if it was from some bad influences, of people I was hanging out with, and I said, "No. I really think a lot of it was because of my dad dying young and I didn't deal with my grief."
Jennifer P.: Anyway, I started talking about how this conversation was triggering to me because there's so much commentary on women's bodies, and sizes. It doesn't sit well with me.
Jennifer P.: And then she said something about, "Yeah, and I guess we all care too much about what people think." And I said, "Well, actually, I don't. I mean, not as much as you." And she agreed. And I said, "I wouldn't have been able to write a book if I had. Don't get me wrong, I still care what people think, but not to the point that it consumes me, so I know, especially with my son, people have said shit to me, people think things.
Jennifer P.: Let them. And I'm clear there's always going to be, just like there's going to be people who don't like my book, who don't like your podcast, who don't like you hair.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, it doesn't matter, and it doesn't need to prevent us from doing what we're drawn to do. Absolutely.
Jennifer P.: I mean, that's really the crux of every single thing I do. You can keep going or you can shut down. So where I really work on telling the truth is, "Wow, that really hurt my feelings," but I'm going to keep going, I'm going to let it hurt for five minutes, or five hours, or five days, or whatever it is, but I'm not going to like, "I'm never going to write anything again," or, "I'm going to lock myself in the room," or whatever it may be. I'm going to feel it, and then keep doing it anyway, as opposed to now changing what I'm doing.
Jennifer Tracy: I was talking to a girlfriend today. She's a writer, a brilliant writer. She was feeling discouraged and she said, "I just can't get an agent." I said, "Well, honey..." she wants to get a literary agent because she's a TV writer. "How many agents have you tried to get?" "Well, I emailed those two ones."
Jennifer P.: That sounds like me when I was trying to be an actress.
Jennifer Tracy: Totally.
Jennifer P.: Are you joking? I literally would be like... people would say, "Have you ever done a mailing?" I'd go, "A what?" Or, "Never." Or, "What are you doing to try to get an agent?" Or, "What are you doing?" And my answer was, "Nothing." I was waiting for someone to come and find me. And not to spoil the ending, but that did not happen.
Jennifer P.: I mean, I really was. I waited at that restaurant, like someone's going to come in and just find me. And yeah, you have to take one little step, and then another.
Jennifer Tracy: And when those two agents say no, you say, "Okay, thank you," and keep going. I mean, there's thousands of agents, there's thousands of other people creating stuff that would want to collaborate with you, or want a great idea, or you just make it yourself. And I'm not minimizing it or making it... but I just think yeah, it's so easy to shut down, like you were saying.
Jennifer P.: It is. And I get so many yeses, but let me tell you how many noes I also get. And I ask, I do, I'm really good at asking, and it does feel so bad when you get a no. It does. But then you just get up and you ask again.
Jennifer P.: All the blurbs that are on my book, it's because I asked. I did that, because I asked. And then you get a no, and it's easy to make that one no feel like, "See? Everyone hates me. See? I suck. See? I shouldn't even write." It's like, why I call out the one in the 100? Because there are 100 people who love you and there's one that doesn't. Who do you focus on? The one. And that is the work of our lives, not giving the one all that power, making the one everyone.
Jennifer Tracy: Totally. Totally. I really one to go on one of your retreats now.
Jennifer P.: Can you come? Actually, listeners and readers, I have a spot to France, May 25th - June 1st. The kind of wacky person that I am, my book is coming out June 4th and I get back to the stage June 3rd, so I'm just hoping adrenaline kicks in.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh my God, that's amazing.
Jennifer P.: So France, I have a spot May 25th to June 1st, and then Italy is September 21st to the 28th. And then I do workshops that are three hours in different cities. I have a London one June 2nd, but the retreats are really where you go in depth.
Jennifer P.: And there's wine tasting, but there's loads of sober people who come just so anyone listening isn't put off by that. Either way, it's so beautiful. There's also no demographic, there's no age, it's not like all-
Jennifer Tracy: And it's men and women.
Jennifer P.: Sometimes, but mainly the retreats, the international ones especially are just women these days.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. That's awesome.
Jennifer P.: Yeah. It depends. But I'd say 99% of the time, the last bunch I've done. The last time a man came actually it was my friend, Rich. I met him because he'd come on so many retreats. He came September 2016 to Italy. Charlie was maybe five months old. And he met a woman at that retreat and they're married now.
Jennifer Tracy: I love that.
Jennifer P.: Yeah, isn't that great?
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. So fellas, if you're looking for a quality lady...
Jennifer Tracy: This is just a selfish question for me, personally, but give me a taste of what a day at your retreat would be like. What kind of work do you make people do, or ask people to do?
Jennifer P.: Well, it's different. So the workshop, it's three hours, and it's sort of like everything's consolidated. In a lot of ways I love the workshop because I'm in and out and it requires so much less of me. I mean, it's so intense, but it's not a week.
Jennifer P.: But the week, each day will have a theme, like a lot of times the first day the theme is opening, and start off in the morning. I have an assistant. She's amazing. She comes and she teaches meditation and yoga. Because now that I'm so comfortable and being like, "My shit ain't yoga," I bring someone who will offer that if you want that. So people do or they don't get up at 6:30 and take her classes.
Jennifer P.: And then mine start at eight, and they come in with their journal. And I do a little bit of body movement. Sometimes we sing and we dance. I'll put on Journey - Don't Stop Believing, or Tom Petty, and I'll give them prompts. For example, maybe one day the theme is release, so that day is about... it's hard to summarize it, but that day will be about what we're letting go of. So both workshops... I usually teach two in one day but it depends on if we do a big excursion, then we get back and they're like, "No, we want to go take a nap."
Jennifer P.: The mornings are always silent, because the whole retreat is so much talking, and noise, and chatter, that the silent mornings are a gift. The mornings are silent, and there's yoga, meditation every morning, and then there's my workshop, which is the hybrid stuff that I do, and then we have these beautiful meals, and then we'll maybe or maybe not go in an excursion locally, or an hour away or something. And then come back and deep, deep, deep, deep connection, deep trust, so much, so much laughter. A lot of grief, because a lot of people coming have lost children, or are going through stuff, but really more laughter and joy, and it's so beautiful to see both at once.
Jennifer P.: But what it's not, it's not just a yoga retreat. It's not like you're coming... so if anyone tries to sign up and they say, "I'm looking for a retreat where I'm going to lose weight, or work on mastering an arm balance, or learn about philosophy," it's great, but that's not... and I have a lot of friends. I could direct them somewhere else. But that's not what mine is. Mine really is about being human and what that means with each other.
Jennifer P.: So it looks different at every retreat. It depends who shows up. This last one I did in the fall, it was five scholarship recipients, and one woman had lost two sons at once, one woman had lost her five-year-old to E. coli, one woman while she was pregnant, her husband got stage four cancer. He died as she was giving birth. Her letter was so moving. Because usually I provide scholarships to women who've lost children, but her letter, Ashley's letter just...
Jennifer P.: And then one woman, her husband died by suicide two years ago, and last June her 17-year-old died in a car accident. So I brought her and her 13-year-old daughter. So there were five scholarship people.
Jennifer P.: That retreat looked different than any other had. But let me tell you, they created a flash mob for me, Rick Astley - Never Gonna Give You Up. So there was just like this great, great joy.
Jennifer P.: But these people, from this one retreat I did last year at some point, they were all having a reunion and they [inaudible 00:48:27] Maui. So these friendships are made that are beyond anything I've ever seen. I'd say it's the thing I'm the most proud of.
Jennifer Tracy: You're facilitating deep bonds and connections that may or may not have happened otherwise. Not to this level.
Jennifer P.: Yeah. And it's something to be hold. But yeah, we go deep and there's no... but it's also, it's not like therapy because it's balanced in with this other stuff and with a lot of levity. The sense of humor is the most important thing to me, so that has to be present, and the whole, "Don't be an asshole."
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, I love that.
Jennifer P.: Yeah. So it's like, there's just this great balance-
Jennifer Tracy: You've been doing the, "Don't be an asshole" for a while. I remember when you first started doing it.
Jennifer P.: Yeah. I was with my friend, Annie. Can you hear me?
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. No, you're great.
Jennifer P.: I was with my friend, Annie, and having coffee, and I used to stop people. I haven't done this in a while, but I used to stop people in the street, I'm such a nerd, and just go, "Hey, what made you happy today?" And just listen to their answer.
Jennifer P.: There was a woman walking on the street who was blind. She had a cane, and I walked her across the street and asked her what made her happy, and she said, "Just waking up." We sat back down and Annie said, "What did you ask her?" And I repeated myself, I said, "I asked her and he said, 'Just waking up.'" And Annie said, "How did that make you feel?" And I said, "Like an asshole." She said, "Why?" I said, "Because here we are, complaining about they don't have almond milk at Coffee Bean." Like, these privileged assholes, and there's this woman who's blind, who truly was just so grateful to be waking up. I'm like, don't be an asshole and wining about almond milk. Wake up.
Jennifer P.: So the, "Don't be an asshole" really started with this... well, first of all, have a sense of humor about yourself, but be a congruent person. So if you say, "I want to be kind, or I want to be..." all these things we want to say and then we walk through the world not being that, check in. But I also firmly believe that it's okay to be an asshole because we all are sometimes, everybody. You and me, everybody. My two-year-old, you know?
Jennifer Tracy: Two-year-olds especially though.
Jennifer P.: Totally especially.
Jennifer Tracy: The have a wide swath because it's just norm. It comes with the territory.
Jennifer P.: But it's just really having a sense of humor about yourself. Like, don't be an asshole and talk shit to yourself, don't be an asshole and criticize yourself, don't be an asshole and forget that you're enough. I feel like all this work we do on ourself can be so heavy and hard, and life's already so hard, so have a sense of humor about it. Not taking ourselves too seriously is everything.
Jennifer Tracy: Absolutely. I love that.
Jennifer P.: So yeah, there's a lot of laughter, and there's delicious food, and there beauty-hunting, which is just a word I made up to constantly look for the beauty, which is just another way of saying, "Pay attention." God, it's magic.
Jennifer Tracy: It sounds incredible. It sounds amazing.
Jennifer P.: It really is.
Jennifer Tracy: Can you talk more about the five scholarship people and where you found them, and the foundation that you're working with?
Jennifer P.: Yeah. Well, it's not a non-profit yet, but it will be one day, if I get around to doing that, which is one more thing that I haven't done that I've been saying I'm going to do. But it started because there was this really amazing woman named Julia, who I didn't know, but she was posting on my Facebook how desperately she needed to get a hold of me, and my son was only a couple month old. And my mom saw it because God bless my mom, and my mom said, "This person keeps posting, so can you check in?"
Jennifer P.: So I messaged her and I said, "I saw your messaged. What's up?" She said, "I'm in the hospital. I'm 41 weeks six days pregnant. My son was to be induced tomorrow and his heart just stopped. I need help. I need resources." She said, "I follow you. I see this community you've created. I see what you do." I passed my son to my mom, to hold Charlie. I'm listening... or I'm reading. I'm not on the phone with her at this point.
Jennifer P.: She said, "I remember you posting about your friend, Emily." I gave you that book, Jenn. My friend, Emily Rapp Black lost her son to Tay-Sachs. She said, "I remember that, and I've seen you post other essays. I've seen this community you built, so I need resources. I need help." And I said, "I'm on it." She told me I could share her story, so I did, and thousands of comments... I connected her with this community, and then she sent me the photo, which was just heartbreaking and beautiful. His name was Alexander.
Jennifer P.: So it turns out she's in Norway. She said she had met me in person. She had taken my class in Santa Monica, and then she fallen in love with a guy and moved to Norway. She's Russian. So I said, "You're in Norway." This was summertime. I said, "Why don't you come to my Italy retreat in the fall? You're already on that side of the world." So she sent a $500 deposit.
Jennifer P.: And it's nine hours ahead in Norway, and she went to bed. And I posted on my Facebook, and I had been posting about her, and I said, "Who wants to send in some donations?" I didn't have the money out of my pocket just to be able to comp her at this point, but people started sending money so I was able to by the time she woke up, refund her $500 deposit and tell her she had a spot paid for in a private room, which is like $3,000.
Jennifer P.: And she came to Italy, and this was the retreat where that guy, Rich, came, who ended up getting married. She was incredible. And it was painful. And she did everything that I'd hoped she would do. Some day she skipped classes, she got body work, she drank all the wine, ate all the food, the wept, she held my son. And it certainly didn't make her pain go away, but we held her, and she allowed us to. It's profound. The last night she said, "Jenn, I really can't think of anything in the world that would've helped me more than this. I need to pay this for." So she sent me $500 and said, "Give this to a woman who's lost a child." And I said, "I want to keep doing this. Can we call it The Alexander Fund?" That was her son's name.
Jennifer P.: So I put that out there and people started sending me money, so I was able to have enough money to bring someone to the next retreat. And then they kept growing. But what happened was, I started getting all these emails of people who've lost children, and it was impossible to pick. So more and more people started donating money.
Jennifer P.: This last one I did in September where there was five recipients, I did not have the money to do that. I was just going to go out of my pocked, and I couldn't say no. And at the very last minute, three women backed out and they were like, "Just use our money toward the scholarship." The universe if you want to call it.
Jennifer Tracy: Wow.
Jennifer P.: I know.
Jennifer Tracy: Wow.
Jennifer P.: But I can't do that all the time because obviously I have to eat and pay my rent, but yeah, it's unbearable the pain looking at these emails and going, "How do I choose?" But there's so many women. And it really is like, it's some of the most rewarding and moving, and healing, and profound stuff I've ever done, just having these women be at the retreat. So it's not like 25 women have all lost children, but they're sprinkled in there.
Jennifer P.: It's been an incredible journey. And really being able to bear witness is I think the thing that changes us to the core, and especially a lot of times moms just aren't able to even hear anything about kids, or be around someone who's lost a child, and it's amazing when we are and we can just hold space for them.
Jennifer Tracy: Yes. And that's what they need more than anything, it's community and support and love.
Jennifer P.: And to be able to be there for other people.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Jennifer P.: And the laughter and the joy. So it wasn't like every session it was like let's rehash what happened. They were just like, dance party, and Rick Astley flash mob, going to Saint Gimignano, and going to this castle in France.
Jennifer P.: But we also didn't shy away from the feelings and the pain, and deep, deep pain. But we were all changed. And that may sound like a corny thing to say, but you're changed.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. That's beautiful. Oh my gosh. Let me check the time until-
Jennifer P.: I wish I could do more.
Jennifer Tracy: Okay, we're good. Well, but you are. You are. I mean, you published a book for God's sake, but all of that ripples out is what I'm saying.
Jennifer P.: It's just like you're sitting her in my apartment, you see how I live, in one bedroom, we have a family bed, and I'm like queen of raising money, and I'm constantly facilitating and doing all this stuff. Somehow I'm really good at... I think because I've built up this really wonderful group of people who believe in me, so when I post, "This family is in need," they donate. But I wish I had more so I could help more people and be able to bring more people on retreats.
Jennifer P.: I don't feel like I would like one more bedroom just so my son could have a room, but I don't really care about any of that stuff, but I would like more money to be able to... I was with these women last weekend, and one of them, she was Section 8 housing. She has this disorder, and I cannot remember the name of it, where she has at least 30 seizures a day.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh my gosh.
Jennifer P.: But wait. She can't get disability yet. So she only eats... when this other amazing woman, Simone Gordon... hi Simone. Simone does all this fundraising for black and brown women who have... single moms who have kids with special needs, and I got to be part of that group, so I help raise money. So Simone raises money for this other woman, and that's the only way she eats.
Jennifer P.: So it was so humbling to be around that, and to think like, "Wow, I wish I could just fill her fridge every month." But luckily that's what's really cool about communities. Simone created a target list, and I posted on my Instagram and it got filled. So this person has two months of food now. Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. And that's the magic of... I wasn't begging on Instagram really, but I was saying it's a double-edged sword. I can be. But that's the beauty of it, is that we've created... well I didn't create Instagram, but-
Jennifer P.: Yes, you did.
Jennifer Tracy: I invented Instagram. Is that there is this online village, because there isn't a village. Most of us, moms, nowadays don't have that village of family, and friends that help us raise our children, and it's hard. It's very isolated.
Jennifer P.: And you certainly weren't begging on Instagram, but I think you're right, if you're someone who struggles with feeling bad ab yourself, and all you're doing is scrolling, and it's making you feel worse, then stop. So there's finding that... I don't know. Balance is kind of a myth in my world, but I know a lot of times I use it as a distraction. I don't want to be present, or I don't want to feel something, or I don't want to do something, so I just scroll mindlessly. I don't even know what I'm looking at. Just this zombie scroll.
Jennifer Tracy: Totally. Totally. Yeah. I think that's so common and...
Jennifer P.: Sad?
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. And scary. And my son is now, he's going to be 10. He's begging for a phone and I'm not ready. And my ex-husband and I talk about it and really go, "Not yet, not yet." But his peers have phones with cell service. I know there's ways you can put parent... not locks, but whatever. What's the word I'm looking for? Where you just have limitations on what they can look at. But it concerns me.
Jennifer Tracy: But the fact is, it's already happening. I mean, he's already got what I just mentioned, at home, then he's got an iPad, then she's got a Nintendo Switch. He's already addicted to digital shit. I don't have an answer. I have no answer.
Jennifer P.: Well, you should. You should have all the answers. I do. And I wrote a book about it, so if you buy my book, you too will have all the answers.
Jennifer Tracy: All the answers.
Jennifer P.: To every question.
Jennifer Tracy: Speaking of questions, I'm going to ask you three questions that I ask every guest. Everyone gets nervous at this. It's so funny. And when you see it, there's nothing to be nervous about. And then there's a lightning round of questions.
Jennifer P.: I'm more nervous.
Jennifer Tracy: The first question, Jenn, is: What do you think about when you hear the word, "Milf"?
Jennifer P.: Actress. The blonde actress from that... what was the movie? American Pie? Isn't that one that first became vernacular? What's her name? Jennifer something. It became a vernacular, right? That was the first time I'd ever heard it. So I think of mother-
Jennifer Tracy: Well, it's from a porn genre originally, but that's where it came into pop culture.
Jennifer P.: But am I right?
Jennifer Tracy: So it is a porn culture.
Jennifer P.: That was in American-
Jennifer Tracy: I don't know who the actress is, but yet, you are right. It is American Pie.
Jennifer P.: No, American Pie. Yeah. So I think of her. Her name is Jennifer something.
Jennifer Tracy: Is it? I'll go look it up.
Jennifer P.: Yeah. She's hilarious, and she was also in Legally Blonde. She's really funny. I'm going to Google it.
Jennifer Tracy: The comedic actress. Yeah, Google it.
Jennifer P.: Yeah, if her name isn't Jennifer I'm going to be mad. But I'm pretty sure. I'm Googling, "Jennifer, American Pie, Legally Blonde."
Jennifer Tracy: Jennifer... I know who you're talking about.
Jennifer P.: Coolidge.
Jennifer Tracy: Coolidge. We love Jennifer Coolidge. Yes, she is hilarious.
Jennifer P.: Okay. I swear, so I think of her.
Jennifer Tracy: So she was the original milf.
Jennifer P.: I mean, am I making that up?
Jennifer Tracy: No, I don't think you are.
Jennifer P.: Because I make a lot of things up. I just Googled, "Jennifer Coolidge milf," and there's quote, it says, "I like milf not cougar." Anyway. That's who popped in my head.
Jennifer Tracy: Yes, love it.
Jennifer P.: So hopefully she'll listen.
Jennifer Tracy: Yes. What's something you've changed your mind about recently?
Jennifer P.: Oh my God, that's amazing. That's like my biggest epiphany in life, and it's in my book, is you get to change your mind.
Jennifer Tracy: I didn't know that.
Jennifer P.: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You get to change your mind, guys. Having a child. You can Google me. I was kind of like the poster child person for not every woman has to have a kid, and you're whole either way, and I did not think I was going to, and I changed my mind. I'm not suggesting that it's that simple. I know people that are dealing with major fertility things, but yeah, I changed my mind.
Jennifer P.: Also the other one was about, I thought I was just at the core a rotten person. So I changed my mind about that. That was a bullshit story.
Jennifer Tracy: How do you define success?
Jennifer P.: Funny you ask. I always say that I define success by at the end of the day when I put down my head in the pillow, I said I told the truth today. And kind of one of my sense of douchey to say my quote, but it's my mission statement in life is, "When I get to the end of my life and I ask one final, 'What have I done?' let my answer be I have done love."
Jennifer P.: So I also really define success not just telling the truth, but did I do love today? Did I do love today? And that looks different every day. But yeah, thank God I'm not defining success financially, right?
Jennifer Tracy: Well, it doesn't work. We know that.
Jennifer P.: No.
Jennifer Tracy: I mean, I like money, but I'm just saying it doesn't work as the penultimate thing.
Jennifer P.: No way.
Jennifer Tracy: It's just paper.
Jennifer P.: Absolutely.
Jennifer Tracy: Ocean or desert?
Jennifer P.: Much as I like to be bi-coastal, both.
Jennifer Tracy: Favorite junk food?
Jennifer P.: French fries with mayo.
Jennifer Tracy: Movies or a Broadway show?
Jennifer P.: Movies.
Jennifer Tracy: Daytime sex or nighttime sex?
Jennifer P.: Nighttime? Unless I'm really full. I mean, I'm really, really bad a decision-making. This is why I was nervous for these. I'm still stuck on, "Ocean or desert?" Can we go back to that? I don't know. Every time I'm asked this question I get really... even in my own head I get really panicky, like, "Why don't I know?" I think ocean, but okay.
Jennifer Tracy: You can answer both. Both is an answer.
Jennifer P.: Well, it's a cop out kind of answer, but anyway.
Jennifer Tracy: I don't think.
Jennifer P.: Okay.
Jennifer Tracy: I disagree.
Jennifer P.: Okay. But yeah, I think generally nighttime sex. It's just [crosstalk 01:06:21]. But you know what? I have a two-year-old and we have a family bed, so any sex that you can get it in with my... my son doesn't have his own room so I don't really have a preference anymore.
Jennifer Tracy: And he's at preschool for how many hours every day?
Jennifer P.: Three.
Jennifer Tracy: Three?
Jennifer P.: Not enough.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh my gosh.
Jennifer P.: No.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. Cat person or dog person?
Jennifer P.: Dog.
Jennifer Tracy: Have you ever worn a unitard?
Jennifer P.: Yes, but I don't know why. I can't remember why, but I'm sure I have. And when I was trying to stop breastfeeding, my friend Charlotte, hi Charlotte, sent me something kind of like that so Charlie couldn't get in my boobs, yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: She did?
Jennifer P.: I hated it. I returned it. I mean, it was really expensive, and I got $80 or whatever back.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh my God.
Jennifer P.: At Barneys.
Jennifer Tracy: Shower or bathtub?
Jennifer P.: Bath.
Jennifer Tracy: Ice cream or chocolate?
Jennifer P.: Ice cream.
Jennifer Tracy: On a scale of one to 10, how good-
Jennifer P.: Eight. Just kidding. No, I'm sorry. [inaudible 01:07:15].
Jennifer Tracy: I love you. On a scale of one to 10, how good are you at ping pong?
Jennifer P.: One.
Jennifer Tracy: What's your biggest pet peeve?
Jennifer P.: Oh my God. Passive-aggressive behavior, flakiness too. When people say they're going to do something and they don't. But I think passive-aggressive. I feel like I have so many because I'm always saying, "That is my biggest pet peeve." I can't think of...
Jennifer Tracy: You have many, many biggest pet peeves. If you could push a button and have perfect skin for the rest of your life, but it would also give you incurable halitosis for the rest of your life, would you push it?
Jennifer P.: No.
Jennifer Tracy: You thought about it for a minute.
Jennifer P.: I did, because I feel like you're in my brain. I've been getting this red splotchy thing on my face, and at first I thought I was just random, and then it's been like a year and it fires up. So I've been to the skin doctor and basically they're like, "Well, is seborrheic dermatitis and also rosacea. You have both things." And basically there's nothing you could do with rosacea, but also everything I do makes it worse. I drink way too much wine and coffee.
Jennifer P.: But I haven't had skin issues since I used to pick at my face, and that was not so much a skin issue as it was a self-hatred issue. But now I have this skin shit in my 40s. So I did. I thought about it and I thought, well, halitosis, I mean, bad breath, you could suck on those little strips and chew gum, but I lipread, I get in people faces, I just think it would be bad.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. You really thought this through. This is good. Superpower choice: invisibility, ability to fly, or super strength?
Jennifer P.: Ability to fly. Invisibility scares me. I don't ever want to know what someone's saying behind my back. No. It's not my business.
Jennifer Tracy: Would you rather have a penis where your tailbone is, or a third eye?
Jennifer P.: Would the third eye be visible?
Jennifer Tracy: Yes. Yes.
Jennifer P.: Man.
Jennifer Tracy: And the penis is fully functional and working.
Jennifer P.: It's a dick. I mean. I think a penis. I don't know. I could at least hide that. I could wear a long coat.
Jennifer Tracy: And you could use it sometimes maybe.
Jennifer P.: Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't mind seeing what that would be like. Yeah. A third eye, just, I don't know. You know, any time, even with this stuff I have on my face now, I feel so self-conscious when I stuff on my face. I just feel like I'd be like, "They're looking at my third eye."
Jennifer Tracy: They would be. They would be.
Jennifer P.: I know. The penis, it would be more...
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. It would be a secret trick.
Jennifer P.: ... discrete.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Jennifer P.: Party trick.
Jennifer Tracy: Party trick.
Jennifer P.: Party dick.
Jennifer Tracy: Party dick. What was the name of your first pet?
Jennifer P.: Oscar.
Jennifer Tracy: What was the name of the street you grew up on?
Jennifer P.: Drexel Avenue.
Jennifer Tracy: So your porn name is Oscar Drexel.
Jennifer P.: I love it. For my milf porn?
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Jennifer P.: I love it.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. Oscar Drexel.
Jennifer P.: Try to say that fast.
Jennifer Tracy: Oscar Drexel. Oscar Drexel. It's hard.
Jennifer P.: Yeah. Oscar Drexel.
Jennifer Tracy: He sounds like... or she. I could be a male or a female. He or she sounds like maybe a detective porn star. Like, just he comes in with this trench coat and his hat, and he's like, "Hello, miss. I'm Oscar Drexel. I'd like to ask you a few questions about the night of the 25th at the club."
Jennifer P.: At the strip club.
Jennifer Tracy: At the strip club.
Jennifer P.: Where you banged your head on the pole.
Jennifer Tracy: That's right. All comes full circle. Jenn, I love you so much.
Jennifer P.: I love you too. Thank you-
Jennifer Tracy: Thank you so much for being on the show.
Jennifer Tracy: Thanks for listening, guys. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Jenn. Next week on the show we have stand-up comic Andrea Abbott, who was wonderful. To go and interview I went to her house in Glendale, and with her four dogs, one of whom was very gaseous during the interview, but we had a great time.
Jennifer Tracy: And just a couple points, I wanted to remind you guys to go to my website, milfpodcast.com or JenniferTracy.com. Sign up for my free online 21-day writing challenge course. It's called Unlocked: A writer's Foundation. It's really fun. I did one this month in April. I'm doing it again in May because I love it so much and I've gotten such great response from it.
Jennifer Tracy: It's a three-week online course. It's totally free. Just to help you unlock the story that is kind of pulling at you an tugging at you to write it.
Jennifer Tracy: So join me on that. It's free to sing up. JenniferTracy.com. And also a reminder that this month, in April, for any iTunes reviews I receive in April, I'm giving $25 to the Children's Defense Fund. That is the charity that I'm working to donate with this month.
Jennifer Tracy: That's it. I love you guys. Thank you so much for listening, and I'll catch you next week on fresh episode of MILF Podcast.