Alison Fanger: I remember turning down my first job when my daughter was a teeny baby. Someone called and was like, "Are you gonna go back to work?" I was like, "No, I'm not. I'm done." I had never ... I had always been like, "Yes, yes, yes, yes." Once I had her, though, I was so content with what that was, you know? I don't know. I just was happy and I also just enjoyed in my children and still do. We're really close.
Speaker 2: You're listening to the MILF Podcast. This is the show where we talk about motherhood and sexuality with amazing women with fascinating stories to share on the joys of being a MILF. Now here's your host, the MILF-iest MILF I know, Jennifer Tracy.
Jennifer Tracy: Hey, guys. Welcome back to the show. This is MILF podcast, the show where we talk about motherhood, entrepreneurship, sexuality, and everything in between. Today on the show, I have costume designer Alison Fanger. I had so much fun going to Paramount studios and going to her offices there where she's on the set of Grace and Frankie to have our chat. It was really phenomenal and she greeted me looking fabulous with her gorgeous mane of hair, and we walked through just racks and racks of costumes and clothing. So it was really cool. Without further adieu, here is my conversation with Alison Fanger.
Jennifer Tracy: Hi, Alison.
Alison Fanger: Hi.
Jennifer Tracy: Thanks so much for being on the show.
Alison Fanger: Thanks for having me.
Jennifer Tracy: This is really exciting. I love being here in your wardrobe office.
Alison Fanger: Thank you.
Jennifer Tracy: It's very cool.
Alison Fanger: There's lots of clothes here.
Jennifer Tracy: Lots of clothes here. Actually, as I was coming over here, I was a little self conscious because I am not at all a stylish person.
Alison Fanger: Disagree with your fabulous hair.
Jennifer Tracy: Thank you. Well, hey, I have someone who does my hair. So I can't take credit for that. I'm really lazy about styling it, but like actual clothing, I just ... Yeah, I'm not very good at it. So I was like, "Oh, gosh, I hope ..."
Alison Fanger: No, you look great.
Jennifer Tracy: Okay.
Alison Fanger: You look great.
Jennifer Tracy: That was not a fishing for a compliment.
Alison Fanger: No, I know. I know what you do.
Jennifer Tracy: So I kind of want to start from the beginning. So you're from Minneapolis.
Alison Fanger: Yes.
Jennifer Tracy: You grew up there all through high school?
Alison Fanger: Yeah. I grew up there all my years. We moved there when I was five.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh, wow.
Alison Fanger: Mm-hmm (affirmative), my parents are both from the east coast, though.
Jennifer Tracy: Okay.
Alison Fanger: So my mom grew up in Brooklyn and my dad grew up in Connecticut. So I feel like I never have felt ... when I grew up in Minneapolis, I never felt like ... well, I just thought it's all I knew.
Jennifer Tracy: Right.
Alison Fanger: But I was like, "Hockey, eh."
Jennifer Tracy: You're like, "I'm a Yankee."
Alison Fanger: I was like, "I don't understand, but okay." It was never my place really.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Alison Fanger: Which I didn't realize until I left and moved here. Then I was like, "Oh, my people," right away.
Jennifer Tracy: So you graduated high school there and went straight to Boulder?
Alison Fanger: Yeah, I went straight to college to Boulder. Then after Boulder ... I didn't really know what I was going to study in college. I ended up studying social anthropology.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh.
Alison Fanger: Yeah, because I was just very interested in character and what makes people tick, you know, what makes it behaviorally. Even though it doesn't seem like it should help me now, it really does because so much of what I do is story telling and character building and character choice motivations through clothing choice, which is so defining really. It's the first thing people maybe will register aside from hair. It's the visual choices that give you clues to who you're about to encounter.
Jennifer Tracy: So when I walked in here, what was your first read on me?
Alison Fanger: Great hair is what I was thinking. No, I was thinking, "She looks lost and has a lot of equipment. She must be here for me."
Jennifer Tracy: Bingo.
Alison Fanger: Yeah, yeah. But it really does inform so much. So anyway, it's helped me a lot, but after college, I didn't know what I wanted to study, I didn't know this stuff existed. I grew up in Minneapolis. I had no idea. I went traveling and I traveled all over southeast asia, Indonesia, Bali, Singapore, Malaysia, India. Went trekking in the Himalayas. Just wanted to do all of that.
Jennifer Tracy: How long were you traveling for?
Alison Fanger: I was traveling for almost a year.
Jennifer Tracy: Okay.
Alison Fanger: Then I didn't want to come home because I still didn't know what I was doing. I loved traveling so much. Also has helped me so much in my work today.
Jennifer Tracy: I'm sure.
Alison Fanger: So happy I did that. It's the best thing I ever did. Went to London, was there for about another year, turned 24 while I was there. Then I was like, "Okay, it's time to ..." because I was waitressing there. I had a great time. It was really an amazing time in my life, but there came a time when I was 24 where I thought, "I think I'm ready to do something that's a little more solid." I was trying to get jobs there, but I couldn't work there because of their work permit situation [crosstalk 00:05:18]. "I'm just gonna go home."
Alison Fanger: So I went home and then I still didn't know what I was gonna do. Then I started just hanging out in Minneapolis, which is an amazing city with a lot of artists and interesting artist types and photographers. I started being friends with all of those people in Minneapolis and a photographer friend of mine said you ... [inaudible 00:05:39] like, "What am I gonna do? I don't know what I'm going to do with my life." He said, "You should be a stylist." I was like, "What is that?" I did not even know that it was a thing. He told me and I was like, "That sounds good."
Alison Fanger: Then he hooked me up with one of his stylists who he hired to do his shoots. I assisted her a couple times and I was like, "Oh, yes. This is definitely ... this is absolutely 100% what I should be doing."
Jennifer Tracy: It clicked for you. It was just easy.
Alison Fanger: Yeah. So I worked there for a little while, I did some commercial work. There was a lot of commercial work in Minneapolis at the time, which is wasn't ... I liked, but I got kind of tired of pretty fast because I am so character motivated and there really wasn't. It was just for more like ... Sell the clothes, yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Alison Fanger: Make it look like the person next door.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Alison Fanger: I wanted to do more. So then a film came to Minneapolis and I worked on it as a PA. I loved it. Then I decided to move here and start working. I have not stopped.
Jennifer Tracy: That's amazing.
Alison Fanger: Except for when I had my kids when I did stop for a little bit.
Jennifer Tracy: Okay, so somewhere in there, you met your husband.
Alison Fanger: Yeah, on a film.
Jennifer Tracy: Okay, and he was a producer, line producer?
Alison Fanger: Yeah, he was a UPM at the time, but yes, he was a UPM at the time.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh, for those not in Hollywood. That's unit production manager, which I don't even really know what that means, but that's what it stands for.
Alison Fanger: It's the most boring job that exists on a film set except for the medic. He's basically stand around craft services eating peanut M&M's and adding up numbers. That's what he does, makes sure you don't go over budget. That's his job. Terrible job.
Jennifer Tracy: The stress of that.
Alison Fanger: The worst because it's constantly going over budget.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, and nobody likes you.
Alison Fanger: Right.
Jennifer Tracy: It's okay. So you guys met.
Alison Fanger: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: How old were you at the time?
Alison Fanger: I was 30 and i was always very ... okay, this is just me but I've always been very directed about my different times in life, which I already kind of said. I was like, "Okay, I've finished college. I have no commitments. I'm gonna travel. This is my time to travel in my life," and I did it. I lived in another country. I trekked the Himalayas. I did all that. Then when I turned 24, I thought, "I need to get a real job. I need a real direction." That's when I came back home, found my direction. Then when I turned 30, I was like, "It's time for me to meet a man to get married to because I want to have children in my life. This is important to me."
Alison Fanger: Literally had never thought about it before. Never even came in my head. Then all of the sudden, I turn 30 and I was like, "Okay, 30. Let's do the timeline here. I think it's time for me to start that part of my life." Then I just ... then he just was there, and we're still married.
Jennifer Tracy: That is so awesome.
Alison Fanger: I know.
Jennifer Tracy: You have such clarity. I mean, I envy that. I admire it, and I envy that. To have that kind of clarity and then power of manifestation of just like ...
Alison Fanger: Yeah, and now this.
Jennifer Tracy: I think that's great.
Alison Fanger: It is. It's thought directed I think.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Alison Fanger: For everyone, you know? Just like wanting it and then every little choice you make after you make that decision points you down the path, you know? It's like those little teeny choices that take you this way or this way, right?
Jennifer Tracy: It's so true.
Alison Fanger: So as long as you keep your focus on what your end goal is of that time frame.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, and don't get distracted. I think that's the main thing, too, of like either we don't think we deserve that thing that we want to manifest or we don't think that it can really happen for us so we ... I say we. I'm talking about myself. Everybody knows that.
Alison Fanger: Everybody.
Jennifer Tracy: But yeah, I mean you can derail yourself so easily. So I think that's amazing. So you get married. When do you have your first child?
Alison Fanger: Like soon because I was on a timeline.
Jennifer Tracy: You were like, "We gotta go. Clock's ticking."
Alison Fanger: I was like 32. It's funny because I'm not like that. I'm a very in the moment day to day person, I really am. But when it comes to the big things, I am very directed about it. It's interesting.
Jennifer Tracy: Why do you think that is? Do you think that's something with your parents, your upbringing?
Alison Fanger: I don't know.
Jennifer Tracy: Or it's just you've always been like that?
Alison Fanger: Yeah. I just have. So we got pregnant like a year after we were married. So it was pretty fast. Here's what happened. So I had been working all the time. All the time, all the time. Then ...
Jennifer Tracy: Were you doing TV, films, everything?
Alison Fanger: I was doing features then, which was so fun because I like traveling obviously. I didn't have kids or anything. I would go out of town on films and I love that. I like experiencing different places even if it's like Aken, South Carolina. It's such a different world.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, there's culture to be discovered everywhere.
Alison Fanger: There's interesting culture, yeah. It's its own culture.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Alison Fanger: Everywhere has it's own different little things.
Jennifer Tracy: Even west Hollywood to Santa Monica.
Alison Fanger: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: Or Echo Park versus studio city or whatever. Anyway, for those of you who are not in LA, we're talking about different pockets of Los Angeles.
Alison Fanger: There's so many.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh, sorry. So you were traveling doing films.
Alison Fanger: Oh, yeah I really liked that. Then right after we got married, I went and did a movie in Miami Beach in Florida. I was there for ... you know, we'd be there for kind of a long time. I was there for about six months I think. Then my husband ended up getting a movie also in Florida right after. I always thought, "Oh, my gosh. We're just married. Am I going to go home now and he's gonna come here. That's kind of sad." So I stayed, but then I was like, "Oh, my God, I'm super [inaudible 00:11:35]," because I was like the wife, you know? I was not ... I was so used to working and then I didn't really have anything to do. Not only that, if I was here I would have been fine because I would have had my community, but I didn't have ... you know what i mean? I was taken out of my community and all the people I was with left because they came back here.
Alison Fanger: So it was very odd time, but then I thought, "Well, I mean, I'm married now. This is my life. If I'm gonna be the wife, I better have a baby or have something to do because I can't workout anymore." I've done enough stair master. I hope that's not derogatory to say wife like that, but I just felt kind of lost in my identity.
Jennifer Tracy: No, I know what you mean. I think there's ... listen, there are women. I always use her as an example. My friend Marcy is like, it's like she floats on fairy wings, literally. I'll call her. Now her kids are teenagers and she's like, "I'm going to teach my Harry Potter class. I'm going to teach my Unicorn class." Like she teaches little pre-schoolers, but she's not worked through her marriage. She's just one of those mom who delights in ... she delighted when the kids were really little and she was home with them all day. I would call her and I was like, "I'm in agony. He's 9 months old and I can't do this for another day." She's like, "Forget about sleep. Just fall into the tiny arms of love."
Jennifer Tracy: It's so beautiful and I had to release the fact that I am not like that, and she is. She just fully is. So I understand what you're saying. I think we all just have different make ups.
Alison Fanger: No, I love being a mom. Don't get me wrong. Once I had my kids I was like all about my kids.
Jennifer Tracy: But before kids you were like, "I don't want to be just ..."
Alison Fanger: Yeah. I just didn't know what to do with myself. I was just like, "Ugh." I was used to doing all the time and I wasn't ... so then I got pregnant. I worked up until ... I was giant. Up until 7 months I was up on the ... I can't believe I did this now, but like up on the ladders up at Universal Costume.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh, my God.
Alison Fanger: People are like, "What are you doing?" I used to wear the craziest things, too. It was a long time ago. It was before there was cute maternity clothes. I would wear just like tie-dye slip dresses and just crazy stuff. Anything that fit. Never through my three pregnancies did I wear one stitch of maternity clothes, I have to say.
Jennifer Tracy: Interesting.
Alison Fanger: I just didn't. There were better ones towards the end, but during the early ones, because my kids are old. Like, my daughter is 20. There wasn't anything. So I just made it.
Jennifer Tracy: That's what you do.
Alison Fanger: Yeah, I always looked good.
Jennifer Tracy: I'm sure you did.
Alison Fanger: So then I remember turning down my first job when my daughter was a teeny baby. Someone called and was like, "Are you gonna go back to work?" I was like, "No. I'm not. I'm done." I had never. I had always been like, "Yes, yes, yes, yes." Once I had her, though, I was so content with what that was, you know? I don't know. I just was happy and I also just enjoyed in my children and still do. We're really close, me and my three girls are very close. I was just like, "I can't." They were like, "Okay, fine." Then I just never thought about it again.
Alison Fanger: Then I don't know. I really immerse into mom life. I really did. I was like ...
Jennifer Tracy: In what way?
Alison Fanger: I just enjoyed it and involved and was like at the preschool Pre-K president person, you know. Just like a little ... then one day it was Halloween and I had ... I was in my garage and I had a rack with all their Halloween costumes on it, and I was like, "Oh, my God. I have to go back to work. I'm annoying."
Jennifer Tracy: Because you were carrying that into your mom.
Alison Fanger: I'm an over achiever in Halloween right now. That is just kind of tragic.
Jennifer Tracy: That's awesome.
Alison Fanger: I think my creative outlet is calling me back. Then kind of shortly thereafter, I had said, too. Another thing I had said was like, "If I'm gonna go back to work, it's gonna be on television and multi camera," because that's the easiest schedule for shooting for kids, which I ended up getting, which is amazing. Did those for many years.
Jennifer Tracy: What was your first show? Sorry for the interruption. What was your first show back?
Alison Fanger: This was not a multi camera, but there's this show called Ten Items or Less. It was for TBS and it started as a pilot presentation. This was my dear friend Evie who I met. She's a new mom now too. She's so great. I met because she came and was Dorothy at my oldest daughter Ella's birthday party was when was three. She came and I couldn't let her ... I was like, "No." I didn't want to get those Dorothy costumes from like ... I didn't want to hire a Dorothy straight out of the box because some of them are a little, ugh. So I rented ...
Jennifer Tracy: Like Hollywood boulevard [inaudible 00:16:43]
Alison Fanger: Like a little smelling like booze. Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Alison Fanger: Boozy Dorothy.
Jennifer Tracy: I've been to a party where it's like, "That Spiderman is so loaded, dude. I mean really bad." The kids are so little at that point they didn't really know and we were all like, "Oh, my God."
Alison Fanger: I know, the moms are like, "Get the weird Elmo away from us." A little threadbare and a little smelly. You know, so I was like ... that's when I was full like ... going back to work really chilled me out a little bit. I think I was a little much. I had to have everything be so perfect as a mom, which can be a little much. So I went and got the Bob Mackey Dorothy costume. We went and had a fitting at EC2 and got a really great Dorothy costume and she came and was just a magical Dorothy with the most beautiful voice.
Alison Fanger: Then she kind of became part of our family. She was a friend of friends of mine. She's an actress. Friend of friends of mine who I found. I was like, "Who's a great actress who could come be Dorothy?" And they were like, "Oh, Evie would be perfect." I met her and we fell in love. Then she started helping me with my kids sometimes and being part of our lives. We didn't tell Ella until she was like 15, though, that Evie was Dorothy at her party. She really thought Dorothy had come. Not when she was 15, right, but for many years. We're like, "Don't tell her." It was really sweet. Now Evie is a mom also, a new mom, a single mom. She's amazing. I talked her into having a baby. I was like, "You gotta have a baby." She really wanted one.
Jennifer Tracy: That's awesome. I would love to hear her story.
Alison Fanger: She was turning 40 and I was like, "Just do it." She's so happy now. It's so sweet. Yeah, she's great. I know. Anyway, digressing.
Jennifer Tracy: Wait, how far apart are your girls?
Alison Fanger: Like two and a half years. So Ella is 20, Talula is 18, and Maxine is 15.
Jennifer Tracy: The most amazing names.
Alison Fanger: Thank you.
Jennifer Tracy: I mean, like story book. That's incredible.
Alison Fanger: Thank you.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, you were in it. Your oldest daughter is 7 is when you went back to work?
Alison Fanger: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: Okay, so you still had two little ones.
Alison Fanger: Yeah, Maxine was little and she's the toughest now, too, I have to say. She is a ... I remember we'd be at my house. I'd be like dying stuff on the deck late and she would be like Toddling out and I was like, "Go to sleep, Maxine," and she was like [inaudible 00:19:26].
Jennifer Tracy: Aww.
Alison Fanger: I know she became the ... but she's pretty resilient. They're all really different my girls. Talula had a crazy ... this is kind of a good mom story. Talula had a crazy birth story.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh, what happened?
Alison Fanger: Really crazy birth story. So Ella had all my girls were so different. So Ella had a story where ... I mean, her birth was like textbook. The pregnancy was textbook, the birth was textbook. We went to the hospital. I was 6 CM dilated. I went a little longer, got an epidural, pushed her out in 20 minutes. Everything is perfect.
Alison Fanger: Talula came. We were at home. My husband was doing a movie two hours away. He came home because I thought I was having contractions. I was two weeks early, though, so I wasn't really sure. So he was like, "I'm just gonna come home just in case." We go to the doctor, and the doctor is like, "You're not in labor. Go home. You're fine." He was in [Controna 00:20:24]. It was like two hours away doing Planet of the Apes. I said, "Okay." So then that night he said, "Go home, take a bath, have a glass of wine," whatever, which I did. I hated the bathtub, though, when I was pregnant, so I got out.
Alison Fanger: Anyway, so it changed and I was waiting for the five minutes apart for an hour. That's what they tell you? Five minutes apart for an hour I think. I was waiting for that before we went to the hospital, but once I got five minutes apart for an hour, my labor was just started slamming. I probably went from 3 to 10 in like 10 minutes or something. So we ended up outside, 2 in the morning, at my house in the driveway. I literally caught my baby in my own sweatpants by myself.
Jennifer Tracy: Wow.
Alison Fanger: Yeah. It was crazy.
Jennifer Tracy: Wow.
Alison Fanger: It was so crazy, because we were gonna name her Clara. That's why I thought of this. We were gonna name her Clara and then I was like, "Clara doesn't get born in the driveway. She needs a different name." That was a really amazing amazing moment and an amazing story.
Alison Fanger: So then my third one, we're gonna go back to the hospital and I was like, "You know what? I don't want to do that. I want to have a ... I want to be at home because now I know I can be at home, and I want to have people around me because I felt sort of alone." Even though it was amazing, it was a little bit traumatic.
Jennifer Tracy: I was thinking how scary that must have been not knowing how it was gonna turn out, doing it in the driveway and having that.
Alison Fanger: I was standing. Everyone was really scared. Well, everyone was really scared when I was laboring right before I had her. Once I had her, I was fine. Before that, it was pretty intense because there wasn't any calming elements involved. It was just like, I was like panicking. So makes that labor worse. Although, it's easier to labor ... just like you were saying earlier, it's nice to meet people in their homes or their workplace because they're more comfortable. I found that my labor when I was home was easy. When I got to the hospital, I was like ...
Alison Fanger: That's why my third one when we started talking about it, my husband really wanted to go to the hospital because he was like, "That's not happening again." I was like, something in my was just like, "No, no. I don't want to go to the hospital because once I get to the hospital, that's when I starts to feel bad." So I didn't want to go and we didn't. So I was home and I had like 8 girlfriends over and we had the baby, all of us.
Jennifer Tracy: I love that you say that. We had the baby, all of us.
Alison Fanger: All together. We were all ... it just felt very ... to kind of come full circle from that feeling of not being heard and of feeling kind of alone, you know? Because even though my husband was there ... it's not his fault. I'm telling you. I think birthing is women's business. It's not his fault. He's lovely and loving and would do anything he could, just didn't know what to do. It's like intuitively it's not, right?
Jennifer Tracy: I remember my husband, ex husband, husband at the time stood there. They gave him a huge cup of crushed ice with a spoon and he was trying to feed it to me and I said, "I don't want that." He just stood there silently eating the ice with a spoon watching the birth happen. It wasn't because he wasn't sweet or caring. The same, he was loving and caring and wanted to be there for me, but literally didn't know what to do other than stand there and eat the ice.
Alison Fanger: They don't know what to do. It's women's business. It's nothing wrong with it.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, and you need that feminine strength and power around you.
Alison Fanger: Yeah. I liked it. I had like a doula and a midwife and my friends.
Jennifer Tracy: Did you ultimately give birth in your bedroom, may I ask?
Alison Fanger: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: Okay, that's so awesome.
Alison Fanger: It happened really fast again. I mean, I had to [crosstalk 00:24:31]
Jennifer Tracy: Your body knew what to do by that point. Your body was like, "Oh, this."
Alison Fanger: We're doing this again.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Alison Fanger: I never though I would have three, but I love having three.
Jennifer Tracy: You know, it's interesting, I always thought I would have three.
Alison Fanger: Really?
Jennifer Tracy: I always wanted three. I have one.
Alison Fanger: You still could.
Jennifer Tracy: I'm 43. I'm almost 44.
Alison Fanger: That's okay. That's not too long.
Jennifer Tracy: We'll see. Maybe they'll come through in other ways.
Alison Fanger: Yes.
Jennifer Tracy: Okay, so you're back at work. You're working on a TV show, Evie's TV show.
Alison Fanger: Oh, yeah. So Evie was the one ... we totally digressed. So Evie was the one ...
Jennifer Tracy: That's okay. Those are the best things that come from the tangents and the digressions. Yeah.
Alison Fanger: Evie was the one who was like, "Oh, my friends are doing this show and they want me to do the costumes." They wanted her to do it, and she was like, "I don't know what to do. Can you just do it? There's no money, but can you just do it?"
Jennifer Tracy: There's no money, but can you do it?
Alison Fanger: Yeah, she's very little. I'm not gonna say the number because it's stupid, but it was not a lot of money. And she was like, "Can you just do it?" I was like, "Okay," only because she had been so amazing and lovely to me so many times in so many ways. I was like, "She is asking me for something now and I'm going to say yes to that because I love her."
Jennifer Tracy: And she was in the show as an actress?
Alison Fanger: No, she was doing the casting for it.
Jennifer Tracy: I see. I see.
Alison Fanger: They wanted her to do the costumes. It was like a pilot presentation, which turned into a show that ran for like four seasons is what happened.
Jennifer Tracy: That's great.
Alison Fanger: Right? So it was TNT. So that's kind of how I got back in it, but it was great because it was just a few episodes, like eight episodes and it was the only show I was doing, and we'd do them. I'd do like eight episodes and then have a lot of time off, you know, and then go back. It was so easy. So I went back in kind of slowly. Now I work all the time. Then I started doing ... then I got kind of into ... I did a show for ABC Family when it was ABC Family called Ruby and the Rockets. Then I ended up doing more shows for ABC Family. I worked with them quite a bit doing like multi camera stuff until I kind of started working with Marta.
Jennifer Tracy: Just for our listeners, when you say multi camera, you mean like not a sitcom?
Alison Fanger: No, a sitcom. Multi camera is like ...
Jennifer Tracy: I mean, I'm sorry. You mean a sitcom like with a live audience.
Alison Fanger: Live audience, exactly. Those are fun, though.
Jennifer Tracy: They look super fun.
Alison Fanger: And they only shoot like two days a week, which is why the hours are manageable. It's the shoot hours that will kill you.
Alison Fanger: So then I did a short thing with Marta. That was a very very good working relationship, Marta Koffman, who was a producer who did Friends. A little show called Friends you might have heard of. This is her show, Grace and Frankie. So that was a really good relationship. So then when this show came up, she asked me to do it and I jumped on it.
Jennifer Tracy: So great.
Alison Fanger: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: So you styled on Friends?
Alison Fanger: No.
Jennifer Tracy: You styled ...
Alison Fanger: She did Friends.
Jennifer Tracy: She did Friends and you styled for her on another show.
Alison Fanger: Yeah, it was a thing called the Five Films or something. It was just five women directors doing five films and then they did five more. I think I did the first one or the second one, but it was a small thing, but it was good to do that because we realized how well we work together. We have a great shorthand. That's what's made this show I think so successful for me for look wise and everything is just my relationship with her and everything is so tight. We have a really nice understanding of character together because we're very close friends, too. I understand what she's saying about a person almost immediately what she wants to say through clothes, almost all the time. Not all the time, but a lot of times, so most of the time, especially the main characters.
Jennifer Tracy: That's huge.
Alison Fanger: Yeah, it is.
Jennifer Tracy: That's such a huge element of story telling, as you were saying.
Alison Fanger: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: You know, there are many many paintbrushes that make up something that you see on the screen and that's one of them that's so crucial.
Jennifer Tracy: So you start on Grace and Frankie, which I want to talk about the show a little bit, but I also want to talk about you having three teenagers while you're doing it. Three teenage girls.
Alison Fanger: I know.
Jennifer Tracy: So you're on this show, which by the way is an amazing all female cast. I mean, I know there are men in the show, but it's female leads and it's female driven. The narrative is female driven.
Alison Fanger: Jane and Lily icons.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Alison Fanger: Female older ... because I've had people ask me. I had one person ask me, "Who do you look to for inspiration for their looks as older women female leads?" I thought for a second and I hadn't thought about it. I thought, "You know what? There was nobody. There were no female driven female lead over 60 women that were the leads of TV series," since like the Golden Girls. There weren't any. I was like, "There was no one to look towards."
Alison Fanger: So this is huge that this is happening. Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: On so many levels. This is again, you asked me when I came in before I hit record, I was telling you a little bit about why I started the podcast. The idea for me that culturally and the messaging that we get is that, "Oh, well, as you get older, you're not really allowed to be sexual. You're not allowed to be fully feminine or embrace that part of yourself." I'm not talking about aging at all because we all age and how we choose to deal with that is whatever. But I am talking about embracing that. You have a cast full of MILFs that are like ... there's a confidence that comes with that that wasn't the case in the 80's or like when the Golden Girls was on. I mean, that age group, which is probably the same age group that's represented here. I don't know how old the Golden Girls were, but look at the difference.
Alison Fanger: Well, they made them look like grannies, so it's hard to say.
Jennifer Tracy: They made them look like grannies. They probably were around the same age.
Alison Fanger: Or younger, but they looked like old grannies.
Jennifer Tracy: Yes.
Alison Fanger: Yeah, the weird short frizzy gray hair.
Jennifer Tracy: Like with the perm or whatever they do, set in the rollers.
Alison Fanger: Ha-ha, they're grannies, which is like, this couldn't be more different.
Jennifer Tracy: Couldn't be more opposite.
Alison Fanger: These guys are like ... I never even thought about their age when I was conceiving of their looks. I really didn't. I just thought about what kind of people they were, you know?
Jennifer Tracy: And the whole story is about them being rebirthed.
Alison Fanger: Yeah, exactly.
Jennifer Tracy: Like, "Oh, our lives are not what we thought they were gonna be. Surprise."
Alison Fanger: "And we're in our 70's and we're gonna keep putting one foot in front of the other and reinvent ourselves." That's what's hit so hard for everybody and is so amazing about the show.
Jennifer Tracy: Yes.
Alison Fanger: But as a mother doing this show, I have to say, being on this show, having Marta Koffman as the show runner and having a lot of female writers and a lot of female directors and female leads, is that I never don't take a phone call from my kids in that fitting room. They all know it. They're fine with it. I always put them on speaker, though. I'll answer and be like, "It's my kid. I'm gonna answer." I say, "Hi, Ella. I'm in a fitting. You're on speaker." And they're like, "Oh, okay." And they'll be like, "It can wait," or they'll have a quick question or whatever it is. I never don't answer my phone for my kids. If there's a volleyball game, I go. I go. I do. I say, "I'm gonna go to my kid's volleyball game." And they're like, "Okay."
Alison Fanger: It's like because you're around this group of ...
Jennifer Tracy: They get it.
Alison Fanger: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Alison Fanger: The guys, too. It's like a great generation.
Jennifer Tracy: That's great. Yeah.
Alison Fanger: Like Martin and Sam. They're, you know, they've got a perspective. Some people in production can get like, "It is life or death. Oh, my God." But I'm like, "It's not."
Jennifer Tracy: We're not doing brain surgery here.
Alison Fanger: Yeah, it's a TV show and everybody is gonna be okay. I love that about this show that I can do that and I feel really blessed.
Jennifer Tracy: That's so important.
Alison Fanger: So I've always made my kids to know that they are the priority no matter what with the work. They're really proud of me, I know they are. They like to come to my stuff. They just came to the costume designers guild awards with us and they come.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh, right. You were just there.
Alison Fanger: yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: Tell me about that.
Alison Fanger: It was fun.
Jennifer Tracy: That must have been amazing. Did you win an award?
Alison Fanger: No, I didn't win. I got ... I mean, it's fine. Versace wins all the time.
Jennifer Tracy: I know you're very humble. So Kimberly, she was like, "Oh, yeah. She was nominated for an Emmy." I'm like, "What?" That's amazing.
Alison Fanger: I know, it was great. Here's another one of my manifestation things. I'll tell you, because I was ... at first, Netflix wasn't sure they wanted to hire me because I had done multi cameras and I had made a life choice as a woman with a family to do a schedule that was more ... it didn't have to do with my talent right? I picked to do smaller projects no matter what they were because I was still career building, too, by the way. So that fit also, but it also was less hours. So they didn't feel like my body of work ... I had worked with a lot of teen stars and stuff. They were like, "How is she gonna handle Lily Tomlin and Jane Fonda?" Marta was like, "She's gonna be fine with Lily Tomlin and Jane Fonda." She knew me. I just worked with a bunch of big people, Melissa Lio and Laura Dern. I had just done that whole other thing with her and it's not a problem, I can hold my own, you know?
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Alison Fanger: But they didn't know me and they were worried and wanted a feature person. I was just like, "Not only am I gonna get this job, but I'm gonna get an Emmy nomination for this job." I said that in the room to Marta.
Jennifer Tracy: You did?
Alison Fanger: I did.
Jennifer Tracy: You are magic.
Alison Fanger: What had happened. I was like, "Oh, my God." I should have said, "I'm gonna win an Emmy," because I haven't.
Jennifer Tracy: Next time.
Alison Fanger: Next time.
Jennifer Tracy: Next time.
Alison Fanger: I know. I have three Emmy nominations.
Jennifer Tracy: That's incredible.
Alison Fanger: Three Emmy nominations and three costume designers guild nominations. Yeah, it's been amazing.
Jennifer Tracy: For what? For Frankie?
Alison Fanger: For the show.
Jennifer Tracy: For this show?
Alison Fanger: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: That's killer.
Alison Fanger: I've made a new character. Frankie especially, we haven't seen her before on TV and she's like this combination of like my mother in law and other kind of strong women. My travels. My mother in law ... not my mother in law. Well, my mother in law, yes, who is not with us anymore, but her step mother was Dorothea Lang.
Jennifer Tracy: Who is that?
Alison Fanger: The photographer, Dorothea Lang.
Jennifer Tracy: Okay.
Alison Fanger: She was a Depression Era photographer.
Jennifer Tracy: Yes, yes, of course. They did a movie about her. Right.
Alison Fanger: She had all this jewelry from when I met her. She wore these crazy muumuus and had all this jewelry. I went in her bedroom. She this armoire, like a giant armoire and every drawer was filled with all this crazy ethnic jewelry that Dorothea had brought her back from her travels as a photographer because she traveled all over the world. So that was part of my character inspiration for Frankie. I said, "Frankie's definitely got one of those big armoires in her bedroom with drawers filled with jewelry." That's been a huge part of her character. So it comes from everywhere. But yeah, the show's been amazing.
Jennifer Tracy: Well, and my creative director, Sarah, who knows I'm here, she's been ... all week she's like, "Oh, my God. Friday can't come soon enough." She follows you and she's like, "I'm obsessed. I drool over every post."
Alison Fanger: Oh, my God. I love it.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Alison Fanger: That's so great.
Jennifer Tracy: It's because it's really innovative, you know? Yeah, it's just amazing what you're doing on the show.
Alison Fanger: Thank you. It's like also art lady layered look, you know? That European art lady?
Jennifer Tracy: Yes.
Alison Fanger: So a lot of people think she's straight up Bohemian and I'm always like, "Not really. Look for the weird geometric shapes," you know and foam core chunky necklaces and the asymmetrical hems.
Jennifer Tracy: Now, speaking of jewelry, I want you to tell me about this ring.
Alison Fanger: Oh, my ring?
Jennifer Tracy: This fabulous ring that you're wearing.
Alison Fanger: This ring has been worn in every show I've done. It's so funny because someone always in a fitting room, if someone says to me ... like, if we're doing an outfit where it needs a little something-something, a little extra, I'll be like, "Wear this." Or they're like, "I love your ring."
Jennifer Tracy: So it's an animal.
Alison Fanger: It's a panther.
Jennifer Tracy: It's a panther.
Alison Fanger: [crosstalk 00:37:39]
Jennifer Tracy: It's a panther. No, no, no. I just ... oh, my God. It's fabulous.
Alison Fanger: It's a panther crawling up my finger, basically hugging my finger.
Jennifer Tracy: It looks like emeralds or diamonds or ...
Alison Fanger: Yeah, but it's costume.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh. That's better in case it gets banged around.
Alison Fanger: Yeah, it does.
Jennifer Tracy: But it's beautiful and very much a statement piece.
Alison Fanger: Yeah, it's Alexis Bitar.
Jennifer Tracy: It's Bitar?
Alison Fanger: Alexis Bitar.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh, that's the designer?
Alison Fanger: B-I-T-A-R. Yeah. Alexis Bitar.
Jennifer Tracy: Alexis Bitar. We'll have to put her in the show notes.
Alison Fanger: He.
Jennifer Tracy: Him.
Alison Fanger: He's good. Good costume pieces.
Jennifer Tracy: Okay.
Alison Fanger: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: Okay.
Alison Fanger: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: Awesome.
Alison Fanger: Thank you.
Jennifer Tracy: So you have three girls. Two of them are in ...
Alison Fanger: One's in college.
Jennifer Tracy: One's in college.
Alison Fanger: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: One's a senior in high school.
Alison Fanger: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: And one's a freshman in high school.
Alison Fanger: Yeah. Yeah, it's a lot.
Jennifer Tracy: That's a lot.
Alison Fanger: It's a lot. They're good girls, though. I'm really proud of them. I am. They are well spoken and mature and can look people in the eye when they talk to them and they're respectful of me, which I never tolerated them not being respectful of me.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, oh it's huge.
Alison Fanger: Because the teen thing is ...
Jennifer Tracy: I mean, my son is 9 1/2 and it's already starting, like that sass. I know it's individuation.
Alison Fanger: Exactly, it is.
Jennifer Tracy: But I'm like, "Oh, no, no. Hell, no."
Alison Fanger: I know. It's part of it, but they can individuate and separate from you without being rude.
Jennifer Tracy: Assholes.
Alison Fanger: Yeah, totally. Totally. I mean, not in their heads, but I say like, "Don't talk to me like that." I feel like I've done a good job, knock on wood. They're all so ... they're good and they all care about school and they know that there is a certain expectation of what they can do. All my girls are so different. It's hard to describe how different they are, but they all have really different strong strengths, so I would never expect Talula to do the things that Ella has done. I would never expect Ella to do the things Talula has done, but whatever I know is their strength and their passion, that's something they're very good at, I do expect that they achieve to their highest degree of that particular thing, whatever that is, right?
Alison Fanger: So it's not like an across the board thing like everybody has to do this. That's not ... but find your thing. That's the only thing that i have found has been really important in their lives is finding their thing, have your thing that you're good at, because that's where you get your validation then.
Jennifer Tracy: Absolutely, and that confidence.
Alison Fanger: Yeah, and not from the wrong places.
Jennifer Tracy: Yes.
Alison Fanger: Girls growing up in Hollywood, I was like, "Oh, gosh. If I can have three girls in Los Angeles and no one has an eating disorder, I will feel like a successful person."
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Alison Fanger: So far, 15, they're okay. I was like really nervous about that. I think that was a thing, though, in the 80's when I was in high school, 90's.
Jennifer Tracy: And the 90's, for sure.
Alison Fanger: Yeah, late 80's. I graduated like '83 from high school. So yeah. It was a thing. Everybody. It was like a trend.
Jennifer Tracy: Well, and then it came back, I want to say, like a decade later when the grunge thing came in and the heroin chic was the thing, you know?
Alison Fanger: Yeah. Is it not a thing anymore? It's not really a thing anymore now is it? Now it's like the Kardashians are more of a thing now.
Jennifer Tracy: I don't think it's a thing anymore. I don't know what's a thing.
Alison Fanger: Having a big badonkidonk is a thing now.
Jennifer Tracy: I think it is a thing. I think that is a thing. I don't know what is a thing because I just don't ...
Alison Fanger: And you have a boy.
Jennifer Tracy: I have a boy. He's very sweet. He has a crush on a girl at school. He would probably die if he knew. I'm not gonna say.
Alison Fanger: I won't tell anyone.
Jennifer Tracy: He's very respectful.
Alison Fanger: That's good. Boys are good. Boys are sweeties. My friends with boy children are just like ... they love their moms so much.
Jennifer Tracy: He's very sweet. I just have to be careful about making him ... I need to give him more to do. I want him to be independent.
Alison Fanger: Oh, he's still pretty young.
Jennifer Tracy: He's still pretty young, but it's a little bit too much like, "Mom, can I have lemonade with crunched up ice instead of crushed ice?" "Yeah, the refrigerator is right there, bro." You know, I don't talk to him like that, but I always end up getting it and I'm like, "Why am I doing this? He can get this for himself."
Alison Fanger: You know what's funny? I only do that with my oldest one.
Jennifer Tracy: Interesting.
Alison Fanger: I can't let it go. She's 20! I'm like, "What am I doing?"
Jennifer Tracy: It's a habit then maybe.
Alison Fanger: It's terrible. I think it's energistic, too. It's a habit, but it's also that first child. I think energistically, there is different interactions between different people, whether they're children or not. I found that from the minute they were born, I felt slightly differently about each of them, not in a bad way.
Jennifer Tracy: Right.
Alison Fanger: Just like a different way. We had a different dynamic, right? So I don't know what it is, but I think a lot of it is the oldest child, but I'm like, "Oh, my God. Stop with her. I mean, are you trying to cut her meat? What are you doing? She's 20." I'm like, "It makes me feel good as a mom." Like if I am home in the morning, I still do like ... even though I know my kids are entirely capable of getting up in the morning, making their own breakfast, making their own lunches, getting out the door. If I am home, which is not all the time anymore because sometimes I have really early mornings, I'm like, "I'm gonna do my mom thing this morning." I did it yesterday. I was like, "I don't have to be in until 9:30. I'm gonna do my mom thing. I'm gonna make your breakfast," because I love doing it. I love doing it. It's also nice to know they can do it themselves.
Alison Fanger: The other thing I want to say about having kids in my business and being a working mom is that they have kept me so relevant. When i was thinking about the Kardashians because they are up on all the latest latest. I'll be like, "Maxine, what are the best jeans right now?" For a certain age group that's close to her. She's like, "Oh, mom. You gotta try these." She's on it. She's like the mini-me, though, that one, my youngest. She's like on all the whatever is any trends up and coming and is about to happen. She's like on the cusp of it and she fills me in if I'm not tuned into that as young as that is.
Alison Fanger: They've done that for me all along. Like when I was on the ABC Family shows. They were like 11 and 12. So then that was their thing. So then I had a good sensibility for what those kids wanted to watch, you know? It's interesting.
Jennifer Tracy: Yes.
Alison Fanger: I felt that it's done nothing but add to my knowledge, you know? Made me better.
Jennifer Tracy: It keeps you younger in that way, and like you said, relevant. I get that. I totally get that. I mean, my son knows stuff I have no idea what he's talking about. He'll educate me. It's awesome.
Alison Fanger: It's great.
Jennifer Tracy: It's awesome.
Alison Fanger: It's awful.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, it's really awful. Especially when I'm older and he's gonna be making decisions for me. It's good to know he knows what's up.
Alison Fanger: Oh, no. Don't say that. Oh, my gosh.
Jennifer Tracy: We're decades and decades away from that.
Alison Fanger: Yeah, yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: What do your girls think about the show? Do they watch the show?
Alison Fanger: Yeah, they love the show.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Alison Fanger: They love the show. Yeah. People love the show. Just when I was ... it's just so funny to me how many people it's reached. I took my daughter. We were looking at colleges. We were in Madison, Wisconsin, and we went for breakfast. In Madison, Wisconsin, the morning we were leaving. It was this long line and there was this young college age girl and this guy behind us talking. She was just like ... they were talking TV, and she was like, "Oh, I'm just finished catching up on Grace and Frankie." He was just like, "What?" She's like, "Oh, it's the best show. It's about those old ladies." She's like, "It's the best show. It's so funny." He was just like, "What?" He didn't know it. I was like, okay, it's so random. I'm in the middle of nowhere and she's in college.
Alison Fanger: I get tons. A lot of my followers are like young girls. You know, they want to dress like Frankie or like Grace. I've had people like 28 year olds like, "I want to dress like Grace. Where can I get Grace clothes?" You know? Now June, Jiane Rafael, if you watch the show, she's gotten real powerful in her look.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh, the red suit is everything.
Alison Fanger: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: That's incredible.
Alison Fanger: We've been doing a lot with red and with suits and with power and with fierceness and with just being a badass boss, you know? She just is such a boss.
Jennifer Tracy: I love it.
Alison Fanger: I know. Because suits are having such a moment right now in fashion. So it's been really fun. We've had so much fun. There's interest in us doing a project together maybe, trying to incorporate looks from the show potentially.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh, cool.
Alison Fanger: Yeah, it's like in ...
Jennifer Tracy: Embryo stage.
Alison Fanger: I don't know if you can say it, really, but I'll ask. But yeah, that would be amazing.
Jennifer Tracy: That would be awesome.
Alison Fanger: Yeah. So I'll let you know.
Jennifer Tracy: Okay, cool.
Alison Fanger: It would be good. I think she's talking about ... she's in south by southwest, so I think she might be talking about it, too. But yeah, we're trying to make that happen because I get asked so many times, so much. It's very complicated to get that off the ground because of so many things. There's all these different people own what it is, you know what I mean?
Jennifer Tracy: Right.
Alison Fanger: So there's a dynamic. It's not just like, "I'm gonna make this cool clothing line." It's like everybody owns a little bit of it, you know? So it's just more complicated. It's just not that easy.
Jennifer Tracy: Legal.
Alison Fanger: People are like, "I'll buy your stuff in a second." I'm like, "I would love to give it to you to buy."
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, but you have that manifestation power, so you're just gonna ...
Alison Fanger: I do. Thank you for reminding me to put that in there.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. So you just need ... I never do this. I never tell people what they need, but I'm doing it. I don't know why. That person who has that business and legal knowledge, right, to come in and be like, "Here." Right?
Alison Fanger: I have that person. I do. I have a woman who's like a branding agent.
Jennifer Tracy: A branding agent.
Alison Fanger: She's done other lines with people so she's on it. So we'll see.
Jennifer Tracy: That's exciting.
Alison Fanger: Yeah, but we've been talking about it for many years. At first it was like Jane and Lily and now it's gonna go to June, which might be easier in a way.
Jennifer Tracy: Right.
Alison Fanger: So we're working on it, though.
Jennifer Tracy: Cool.
Alison Fanger: I know. You're right. I'm gonna just do that. I'm gonna [crosstalk 00:47:54].
Jennifer Tracy: It will be. There's no question in my mind now.
Alison Fanger: A sign post at the end of the path that says this is happening.
Jennifer Tracy: This is happening because Alison said so. So you are almost at the end of this season shooting?
Alison Fanger: No.
Jennifer Tracy: No, you just started.
Alison Fanger: No, we just started. We're shooting till the middle of June [crosstalk 00:48:17].
Jennifer Tracy: Oh, that times out great. Because then will you be off for the summer with your kids?
Alison Fanger: Maybe. That used to be great. I have done that. One summer, we went ... this is an amazing thing we did. One summer, it was when I was on Melissa and Joey, ABC Family Show and Melissa and Joey both had families and they liked to have the summers off. So that was always good. That was another good thing. They wanted time with their families, too. So we would have summers off.
Alison Fanger: One summer, my husband was doing a movie in Budapest, and I took the girls for the summer. They were like ... Ella was ... Well, I know Talula my middle one was going into 7th grade, so Ella was probably in 9th grade and Maxine was like 5th grade. Really good ages for traveling. We went to ... and you know I like to travel.
Jennifer Tracy: Yes.
Alison Fanger: So we went to ... we were based in Budapest and my husband was like, "Do what you want during the week but be here on the weekends with me." I was like, "Okay, great." We went to a different country every week. We went to France and we went to Italy and we went to Germany. Went to like Munich and Berlin. We took the trains everywhere.
Jennifer Tracy: Just you and your three daughters?
Alison Fanger: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: That is bold.
Alison Fanger: It was crazy.
Jennifer Tracy: That is amazing. I'm so impressed by that.
Alison Fanger: It was amazing. It was so ...
Jennifer Tracy: And they remember it because they were old enough.
Alison Fanger: They were old enough to all carry their stuff and walk with me, you know what I mean?
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Alison Fanger: There were some times where I was like ... you know the train system is crazy where it's like, "Get off the train. It's stopping." We're like, "What?" We didn't know where we were, you know, but you figure it out. You work it out. That's one of the things that they really learned from me a lot. They all have the travel bug. My oldest daughter is never home anymore. I'm always like, "Are you ever coming home again?" Because she always travels. Every time she's got an opportunity, she takes it to go.
Alison Fanger: They learned so much that ... whenever they write anything about ... you know, a lot of college applications and stuff or school applications and papers will ask, "What's something that you remember a lot? What changed your life? What was important? What was integral?" They always bring up that summer because it was just amazing to go to all those places and get through all the obstacles of traveling and train travel and pushing through and not being deterred.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Alison Fanger: And not getting tired and getting out there and just being hot and sweating and walking around and figuring it out and not knowing the language and not knowing the food and figuring out the best places. You know what I mean? There's a lot of work that goes into it.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Alison Fanger: It's so fun. It's so good.
Jennifer Tracy: It gives you ... it sounds like it gave them as well at such a crucial age that knowledge of self sufficiency.
Alison Fanger: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: That you can really only get from that kind of experience where you just put your ... you're a total fish out of water and at the end of the day, at the end of the week, at the end of the trip, you're like, "Oh, my God. I survived that. I did that."
Alison Fanger: I didn't even think about not surviving and just figuring it out. What's the worst thing that can happen?
Jennifer Tracy: I get lost. Yeah.
Alison Fanger: We were on that weird bus, like when we had to get off the train in Germany, I was pretty freaked out. I was with my kids and I didn't know where we were in Germany and we had to get off the train and then onto a bus. The bus was masses of people trying to get on this one bus. It was a little scary. It was a little bit of a crusher. We had our bags and it was kind of crazy. I just was like on the bus with the girls and I was like, okay, this is what I always thing when I'm a little bit like maybe I'm in over my head here a little bit. I'll be like, "What's the worst that could happen right now?" The worst thing that could happen is we end up somewhere that is unfamiliar and we'll find a car to rent or something and we'll get to where we need to be. What's the worst thing that can happen?
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Alison Fanger: That kind of brings me back in. We're gonna be okay. It's kind of a cooky funny thing. I just try to make it funny when crazy stuff happens.
Alison Fanger: Another funny thing that happened that trip was we took an overnight train into Munich and I wanted to rent a car and drive up to ... I wanted to take them to see Auschwitz.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh, yeah.
Alison Fanger: I wanted to take them to see the Sleeping Beauty castle because I was like, "I don't want to just bum them out with Auschwitz. I want them to see it, but I want them to also see something magical." So that was the plan. We're gonna rent a car. It was the only way to do it. We had a good day. We're gonna rent a car. We're gonna go to both these places. So we get to the car place and I forgot to ask for an automatic car, and I haven't driven a stick since college.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh, dear.
Alison Fanger: They're like "Do you want the diesel stick?" I was like, "I can probably figure it out okay," then I got a diesel stick. I could not drive it. It was smoking. I drove over a curb. This guy pulled up, he's like, "Your car is smoking." My girls were like, "Mom!" I just pulled over. I'm like, "I'm done. This is it. We're done." I pulled over. I got out of the car. I called the car company and I said, "You've got to come get the car. I can't drive this car." Crazy things happen, but I love that they have those memories.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, and that's a great story.
Alison Fanger: Really funny things that happen and how you deal with it. You just go, "Okay, Uncle. Guess, what. We're not going to Auschwitz." We went to the castle.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Alison Fanger: I wish I had brought them to Auschwitz.
Jennifer Tracy: But they did see the castle.
Alison Fanger: We went to the castle.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh, good.
Alison Fanger: the Sleeping Beauty Castle.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Alison Fanger: Am I making you want to travel?
Jennifer Tracy: You know, yes. Marci, my magical fairy wing friend that I had told you about, she's taking her kids to Europe this summer, and she's like, "Please come with me." It's her birthday. She's having a big birthday. Oh, I really want to. I don't know if I can.
Alison Fanger: [crosstalk 00:54:19]
Jennifer Tracy: I know. Today, just on my way over here, she's like, "And I got this Venice Airbnb. It sleeps seven. You could bring Blooms," my son. I'm like, really thinking about it.
Alison Fanger: You should go.
Jennifer Tracy: I know. Just how you said the perfect age. He's about to go into fifth grade. He's a really good traveler.
Alison Fanger: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: I took him to New York for the first time a couple years ago and he loved it. We stayed with friends right on central park and he just thought central park was ... I mean, it's central park. It's like the greatest thing ever. He was like, "Dude, you live here? Like you go here everyday?" His little friend was like, "Yeah, bro. This is it, man." They just spent hours in the park, hours and hours. It was beautiful weather.
Alison Fanger: You should go.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Alison Fanger: Scott's Cheap flights. Do you know about that?
Jennifer Tracy: No.
Alison Fanger: There's this thing called Scott's Cheap Flights. You can register and they have deals that come through and really good Europe deals.
Jennifer Tracy: Ooh.
Alison Fanger: Yeah. They're like different date brackets. You have to be willing to be like, "Yes, we're going then." But if you know what dates she's going, you could just look on it.
Jennifer Tracy: Right, and I could make it around the same time. So if we got there a couple nights early, we could just go to Paris or something. Yeah.
Alison Fanger: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Alison Fanger: Just go to Paris.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Alison Fanger: Scott's Cheap Flights.
Jennifer Tracy: Okay.
Alison Fanger: I'm telling you.
Jennifer Tracy: I'm gonna check it out. So okay, I know we've been talking for awhile. I'm just gonna check. Oh, my God. Perfect timing.
Alison Fanger: Yeah? Woo.
Jennifer Tracy: So now we've come to the time where I ask you three questions that I ask every guest. Then we go into a fun lightning round of questions.
Alison Fanger: Oh, whoa. Uh oh.
Jennifer Tracy: Everyone gets nervous.
Alison Fanger: I am so nervous.
Jennifer Tracy: It's silly questions. No, there's nothing to be ... you're gonna rock this.
Alison Fanger: Mm-hmm (affirmative)
Jennifer Tracy: What do you think about, Alison, when you hear the word MILF?
Alison Fanger: Oh. Well, now I think about your podcast.
Jennifer Tracy: But before.
Alison Fanger: Ick. It just feels so ... such a strange thing to say. I remember when I first heard it being like, "What is that?" Then I looked it up and I was like, "Oh." It's so derogatory and just such a strange thing to categorize sexuality and motherhood as though they don't belong together, right?
Jennifer Tracy: Like it's a circus freak show.
Alison Fanger: Yeah. I was like, "Ew." That's why I said Ick. To me it's just so incongruent to everything I believe in. I was like, "Ugh." It's just disgusting. It was objectifying, honestly, and kind of like circus freak show.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. Agree. What's something you've changed your mind about recently?
Alison Fanger: Oh, Michael Cohen.
Jennifer Tracy: Great answer.
Alison Fanger: Just in the last two days. What else? I don't know what else. Give me some ideas.
Jennifer Tracy: Well, I mean, you are a person that seems very clear on things. You're very definitive and decisive so maybe you don't need to change your mind.
Alison Fanger: I know. I like Michael Cohen. I love it. Maybe he really is trying to do the right thing now.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Alison Fanger: But maybe not. I'm trying to think of a clothing reference I might have changed my mind on. Something I didn't like that now I like in clothing, but pretty straight up on that one, too.
Jennifer Tracy: You know what you like.
Alison Fanger: I've come around to jeans that don't have stretch in them, for my characters.
Jennifer Tracy: Interesting.
Alison Fanger: Yes.
Jennifer Tracy: Is that trending more now, jeans that don't have stretch in them?
Alison Fanger: Yes.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Alison Fanger: Yes, because I was all about the stretch, but you know those get a little [inaudible 00:58:06], a little gummy.
Jennifer Tracy: I just gave away ... well, I have in my trunk to give to all my girlfriends in dance class. I have like 12 pairs of jeans like same. They're two years old and they were great when I first bought them. The waistline is [crosstalk 00:58:22]. Yeah, like elastic that's worn.
Alison Fanger: Yeah, and elastic is bad for the environment anyway. All that elastic that they put in the jeans is bad for the environment anyway.
Jennifer Tracy: Really?
Alison Fanger: Yeah, it's basically like plastic.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. Makes sense.
Alison Fanger: Yeah, so I think the fit is better and it stays better. Maxine told me about these jeans.
Jennifer Tracy: Knower of all things fashion, Maxine.
Alison Fanger: Yes, Maxine. My girls here are always like, "What does Maxine say?"
Jennifer Tracy: I love it. That's amazing.
Alison Fanger: I know. These jeans that are kind of like old school shrink to fit Levi's you know? You actually buy them super tight. [inaudible 00:59:01] used to having things be a little loose, including me honestly. Like I like my clothes to be a little, you know, but you wear them super tight, oopsy, super tight and then you can literally get in the bathtub with them so they get all wet and they mold to your body.
Jennifer Tracy: Really?
Alison Fanger: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: Interesting.
Alison Fanger: Yeah, I know.
Jennifer Tracy: I love it.
Alison Fanger: Yeah, I know. They're cool.
Jennifer Tracy: I never would have known about that I had I not had this conversation.
Alison Fanger: See? I did have a thing to say. I came around.
Jennifer Tracy: How do you define success?
Alison Fanger: Oh, I define success as being able to be true to yourself and happy in your heart and good to the people around you and accept love and give love and be respectful. I'm so ... I think it's so important to be respectful to the people around you so that you get respect back. Everybody who works for me, I am so grateful to them everyday for all of what they do. I mean, I'm like that with my ... I'm a mom with my work people, too. Like with my kids. I never get mad at people. I get disappointed, you know?
Jennifer Tracy: Right.
Alison Fanger: I've never been like a yeller or a anything. I respect that everybody is working hard. As long as you work hard, I'll respect you. I think that success is just knowing that you've been true to your own self of what you want in life, you know? That's ... to me, that's the best. Then you can just wake up every day and be like, "I'm doing it." Some days you wake up and still feel crappy even if you're doing it, you feel tired or whatever, but you get up and you keep going and you just feel that you're respecting yourself and your own needs and your own wants and your own desires and your own goals. I think you should never be afraid of your goals.
Jennifer Tracy: I'm gonna add a question that's just for you. It's the Alison Fanger Question. What's your next big milestone goal, if you want to say it on the Podcast?
Alison Fanger: Oh.
Jennifer Tracy: You can come around. You can think about it.
Alison Fanger: I know what it is.
Jennifer Tracy: You're not sure you want to say it. Okay. You can tell me after we stop recording. We'll leave it as a teaser.
Alison Fanger: Okay, okay.
Jennifer Tracy: Okay, lightning round.
Alison Fanger: Okay.
Jennifer Tracy: Ocean or desert?
Alison Fanger: Oh, gosh. That's such a hard one because I love them both so much. I love all of nature. I can't answer. I'm so fed by nature. Nature is where all beauty stems from. All of what I do, aesthetics, is all from nature. Every clothing piece is from nature. To me, I get fed from nature. I love the desert. I love the ocean. I can't answer.
Jennifer Tracy: Favorite junk food?
Alison Fanger: Oh, my God. Cheez-itz.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh, yum.
Alison Fanger: Yeah. They make me feel bad, though, so I don't eat them.
Jennifer Tracy: But they are deliciously crunchy, salty, cheesy.
Alison Fanger: They're so good.
Jennifer Tracy: Movies or Broadway show?
Alison Fanger: Oh, gosh. Again, hard one. Love them both. I love a Broadway show. I love a Broadway show.
Jennifer Tracy: Me, too.
Alison Fanger: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: Daytime sex or nighttime sex?
Alison Fanger: Nighttime sex.
Jennifer Tracy: Texting or talking?
Alison Fanger: I prefer talking but I do more texting.
Jennifer Tracy: Cat person or dog person?
Alison Fanger: I have both, but I'm a dog person. But I have a cat.
Jennifer Tracy: I love that you had to explain it.
Alison Fanger: I have a cat, but he is a mouser. He has a job.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh, great.
Alison Fanger: He's a cat with a job.
Jennifer Tracy: That's great.
Alison Fanger: We've come around to him, too.
Jennifer Tracy: Have you ever worn a unitard?
Alison Fanger: No.
Jennifer Tracy: Shower or bathtub?
Alison Fanger: Shower.
Jennifer Tracy: Ice cream or chocolate?
Alison Fanger: Chocolate.
Jennifer Tracy: On a scale of 1-10, how good are you at ping pong?
Alison Fanger: So good at ping pong.
Jennifer Tracy: Are you?
Alison Fanger: Yeah. Well, I wouldn't say I'm a ten, but I'm at like a 7.5.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh, okay.
Alison Fanger: Yeah, I'm good.
Jennifer Tracy: Nice.
Alison Fanger: I'm better at foosball. I've got a secret foosball skill.
Jennifer Tracy: Really?
Alison Fanger: Yeah, like it's intense. It's from Minneapolis winters and having a foosball table in my basement.
Jennifer Tracy: That's awesome.
Alison Fanger: I'm weirdly good at foosball.
Jennifer Tracy: Do you have one in your house?
Alison Fanger: No, we used to. We just don't have a good spot for it.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. It takes up a lot of space.
Alison Fanger: Yeah. We don't have a basement.
Jennifer Tracy: Right, California. Yeah. What is your biggest pet peeve?
Alison Fanger: I don't like when a certain design element is all of the sudden everywhere. It really bothers me when like the whole cold shoulder thing was happening, like the cutout shoulders. I'm trying to do my show and everything is coming in here with these weird cutout shoulders. I'm like, "No. No on the cutout shoulders."
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Alison Fanger: Then all of the sudden there will be like long crazy sleeve party happening. I know this is related to my work, but it is a pet peeve. I like originality. I want things to look real and different. I don't everybody wearing a stupid trend.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Alison Fanger: I find that frustrating. I find that there's more of that happening in Los Angeles, you know, because it's Los Angeles. When I go to New York, I see so many different people walking around in so many different good styles, and they're not the same style. They're all their own unique style and they all look so good. I like a uniqueness. I don't like when things become the same.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, vanilla.
Alison Fanger: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: Totally.
Alison Fanger: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: If you could push a button and it would create ten years of world peace, but it would also place a 100 year ban on all beauty products, would you push it?
Alison Fanger: Yes.
Jennifer Tracy: Super power choice, invisibility, ability to fly, or super strength?
Alison Fanger: Oh, I would love to fly.
Jennifer Tracy: That's fun. Would you rather have a penis where your tailbone is, or a third eye?
Alison Fanger: Oh, my God. Neither. Would you have to see the third eye? Could it just be there like in yoga when they say it's your third eye.
Jennifer Tracy: No, it's an actual literal third eye.
Alison Fanger: I can't.
Jennifer Tracy: Alison's whole opinion of me just changed. It just all changed. Her whole face, she was just like, "Wait, what the fuck is this podcast? What am I doing? Oh, my God. I can't believe I'm here. Get this woman out of my office."
Alison Fanger: Not at all. That's funny. You just asked that question to see the reaction. Do people answer that question?
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah. My friend Kathleen. All different.
Alison Fanger: Are people more for the penis or the eye?
Jennifer Tracy: Penis.
Alison Fanger: Penis. I mean, I think if I had to answer, it probably would be penis.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Alison Fanger: But just because that's not cute.
Jennifer Tracy: She pointed to her third eye.
Alison Fanger: Unless it has like your third eye in yoga. Unless it has a thing where it centers you where it has a thing about it, more than just the visual eye.
Jennifer Tracy: It can. They can. We're inventing this. It can be whatever. You don't have to choose either.
Alison Fanger: Okay, thank you.
Jennifer Tracy: Okay, what was the name of your first pet?
Alison Fanger: Taffy.
Jennifer Tracy: What was the name of the street you grew up on?
Alison Fanger: West Coventry Road.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh.
Alison Fanger: Taffy Coventry.
Jennifer Tracy: Taffy Coventry.
Alison Fanger: Taffy Coventry.
Jennifer Tracy: That's a good one.
Alison Fanger: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: There was another combo of that. Have you heard that?
Alison Fanger: Yeah, but I can't remember what it is. Do you know what it is?
Jennifer Tracy: I can't either, but it was really funny.
Alison Fanger: Yeah. I think it's like your middle name and something. I should look it up.
Jennifer Tracy: I remember it being pretty good. Taffy Coventry is pretty good, though.
Alison Fanger: Taffy Coventry is great. Where do you think she's from?
Jennifer Tracy: Taffy Coventry?
Alison Fanger: That girl. That porn star.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh, gosh. Britain.
Alison Fanger: Yes. Yes. She's English. She's British. She may be a little cockney, a little bit, Taffy. Come here, love. I'll show you around town.
Jennifer Tracy: Definitely.
Alison Fanger: I love it.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh, my God. Alison is such a treasure. I hope I didn't completely lose you with the weird creepy ...
Alison Fanger: Not at all.
Jennifer Tracy: ... would you rather.
Alison Fanger: It was so fun.
Jennifer Tracy: I'm so glad I got to meet you.
Alison Fanger: Yeah, same. Me, too.
Jennifer Tracy: Thanks so much for listening, guys. I really hope you enjoyed my conversation with Alison.
Jennifer Tracy: Tune in next week when I bring Rachel Rogers onto the show. She is a lawyer turned business coach, entrepreneur coach, and she has her own company called Hello 7, where she helps coach women, female entrepreneurs to break through from their 6 figure incomes to 7 figure incomes. She is also awesome, and she's beautiful and funny and real and we had an incredible conversation. She's also the mother of three kids and one step child, and just wow. What a baller MILF. Really, truly, I had such a great conversation with her. So I hope you'll tune in for that.
Jennifer Tracy: Remember to please subscribe to us on iTunes. Please leave a review and also check out the website, milfpodcast.com. You can see the show notes there. You can see transcriptions of the show. You can see all the other little goodies we have. I write a blog every week. I don't know if anyone reads it, but I write a blog every week. I have a few little giveaway things on there you can grab. That's it. I just love you guys. Thanks so much for listening.