Wendy Miller: The common myth is that if you educate your kids about sex, they will be sexually adventurous and make bad choices and have unwanted pregnancy and STIs. It is true, the kids who are informed make the smarter decisions. The kids who don't know any better are the ones who get knocked up at 13 when they don't want to, so it is critical for parents to educate their children or find someone else who will, because sex ed at school is really just about reproduction.
Singers: Bum, bum, bum, sex ed, sex ed, what's happening in your bed? We've got answers just ahead, yeah. It's time for, Sex Ed The Musical.
Jennifer Tracy: Hey guys, welcome back to the show. This is MILF Podcast, the show where we talk about motherhood, entrepreneurship, sexuality and everything in between. I'm your host, Jennifer Tracy. That was the opening theme jingle to my friend Wendy Miller's podcast. She is this week's guest. Her podcast is called Sex Ed The Musical, and my interview with her, you're gonna hear how much I'm laughing and laughing so much I can hardly breathe. She's brilliant. She's funny. She's really sharp, like, ridiculously smart, and she knows a lot about sex. She's a sexologist. I'm just so excited to share this interview with you guys. I mean, it was just so much fun recording it. I didn't want it to end.
Jennifer Tracy: Let's see, so, just a few quick reminders: this month, the charity that I'm working with is Children's Defense Fund, so, for every iTunes review that MILF Podcast gets in the month of April, I will donate $25 to Children's Defense Fund. You can find them online. You can find them going to my podcast ... I mean, not to my podcast. You can find them online. You can find them by going to my website, milfpodcast.com, and going to the giving page. There'll be a link to them and a little blurb about them.
Jennifer Tracy: In other news, I'm also doing this 21-day creative challenge. If you wanna opt-into that, you can go to my website and just sign up under the little old-timey typewriter, and what you'll get is a three week class with me, basically, and a workbook taking you through creative writing and opening you up to whatever it is that you wanna write, if you wanna write a book, if you wanna write a screenplay, but basically kind of getting clear on what that story is for you. I believe stories are the most important thing. It's why I became an actress. It's why I have a degree in screenwriting from BU that's dusty. I don't even know where my bachelors thing is. Do you guys know where your diplomas are?
Jennifer Tracy: It's so funny. At the time, I got it framed, but, is it worth anything really? I mean, you know what I mean. I don't know. It's worth it, the experience that I gained there and the knowledge that I gained, but it's just so funny, like, the actual piece of paper. Anyway, so, check that out. It's a free course I'm offering for fun and you could also go to my website, jennifertracy.com, if you wanna see what I do with writers and how I coach them and how I work. Anyway, without further ado, I'm gonna introduce this week's guest, Wendy Miller. But, before we start into that conversation, I'd like to share with you another little jingle. This one's my personal favorite of all the ones she wrote and had produced. Here you go.
Singers: Masturbation: an orgasm you never have to fake.
Jennifer Tracy: Hi, Wendy.
Wendy Miller: Hi.
Jennifer Tracy: Thank you so much for being on the show.
Wendy Miller: Oh, I'm so excited.
Jennifer Tracy: I'm thrilled to have you here.
Wendy Miller: Oh, wow.
Jennifer Tracy: So, I met you at The Self-Care Project, and you made me laugh so hard that I almost fell out of my chair, then. And, just now before we hit record, you had me like, snotting and crying and laughing because we were talking about your brand new pod cast, Sex Ed The Musical.
Wendy Miller: That's right, Sex Ed The Musical.
Jennifer Tracy: So, how did this come about?
Wendy Miller: You know, it's so ... okay, well, there's a long story. I mean, I could share that with you.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, we want the long story.
Wendy Miller: So, here, this is crazy. I have a background as a producer. I won an Emmy producing the Wayne Brady show, worked on the Oprah Show, been a million places, and Jackie Macdougall called me up and she said, "I'm doing this self-care event. Can you recommend some sex experts? I already have a position and a sex therapist. I want someone kind of relatable up there," and I said, "Yeah, sure," and I kind of went through my Rolodex and I sent her some names and she called me back and she said, "I want you to do it," and I was like, "All right, I guess, okay." I'd hosted some things at my house because I got to spend a lot of time with sex educators and my friends were always asking me questions so I used to do little seminars in my living room.
Jennifer Tracy: You did?
Wendy Miller: Yeah, there were 40 people in my house for the blowjob seminar with Nina Harley. Fun fact: for the cunnilingus seminar, there were six people. I'm just saying, this explains all of the sexual dysfunction in the world.
Jennifer Tracy: The six people that were there, what gender were they?
Wendy Miller: They were all cisgender females, three lesbians and three fluid women. I know, I know, and, of course, everybody knows what really gets women off, and it's not penetrating sex with a dude. Whatever, I digress. So, I'd been speaking to groups for a while and I'd been speaking at special events, etc., but this seemed kind of interesting to me and so Jackie asked me to do it. I'm glad you were there so you can kind of back up what happened.
Wendy Miller: So, the whole day was great. There were all these really great speakers. The salmon was delightful. It was a really fun day, and then it came time for the sex panel, and I really, as, in general, don't talk to people. I'm kind of not so much an introvert. I'm just kind of in my own world and so I wasn't really talking to anyone. Got up on the stage and I didn't know who else was gonna be on the panel, and they started the introduction and I just said, "Let's get dirty, ladies," and all of a sudden, everybody kind of leaned in, and I'm with two doctors and a woman from Access Hollywood, and so, they're kind of worried about looking legit, and I'm there. The first question came up. I just leaned in and basically ran the thing, and had so much fun. And, I think I really was connecting with people because I wasn't as ... I don't know. You were there. Why do you think it worked?
Jennifer Tracy: You were not afraid of speaking from your heart and your own experience, but there wasn't this idea of, "Let me speak from my expertise of my medical degree or my practice," in that way, and so it was just very real. I will never forget you said something about edgers.
Wendy Miller: Edging, yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: I didn't know what edging was until you educated me that day, so, do you want to tell our listeners what edging is?
Wendy Miller: Well, no. This is about people who are-
Jennifer Tracy: And I just now ... here we go. It just sounds like I farted.
Wendy Miller: The chair's gonna make a fart noise. I put her in a fart chair. This is really funny. No, basically, there were a lot of women there who were super brave to be asking questions and I was just answering them like a friend instead of someone who's actually intelligent, and so we had a great time. Some woman, she was afraid to buy lube, and I said, "You'll spend $45 for a lipstick, but you won't buy lube. Just think of lube as lipstick for your vagina," and I just had a great time and I was really connecting people and having fun and helping people.
Wendy Miller: So, after the panel, I stepped off the stage and this woman came running up to me. She's like, "Oh my God, Oh my God, you're so funny. You're so great. You should have a talk show. You should have a podcast. You should have a talk show." I'm like, "What?" She goes, "Have you ever had a talk show? Have you ever had a podcast?" Like, no. I'm nobody, no, no. And, she introduces herself and she's like this giant in the entertainment industry, in daytime TV, gave everybody talk shows, and I knew who she was, and I was like, "Huh?" and she goes, "You need to go talk to this person," and then she drags me across the room to this other woman who produced The Oprah Show after I left and has produced a bunch of shows, and the woman said, "You're amazing. You're funny. You should host a talk show. You should have a podcast talk show, talk show, talk show," and I'm like, "What the heck is happening, here?" I don't look like you. I look like a normal person, okay? And so, the idea that someone would say to me that I'm supposed to have a TV show, it's quite laughable to me.
Jennifer Tracy: Well, it's not to me because I was there and I was not only experiencing the joy that you were giving me as an audience member, but I was watching everyone around me just fall out and also feel this camaraderie of breathing a sigh of relief of, "Oh my God, yes, let's talk about sex. Let's talk about orgasms. Let's talk about how we're not having enough of both," you know?
Wendy Miller: Yeah, and I was really concerned because ... and, when you listen to my first episode, the very first thing I say is, "I'm not a doctor. I'm not a therapist. I'm just someone who spent seven-and-a-half years in the middle of an orgy for work," and I went in there as a basic suburban mom, married, making snow cones at the block party, and then, next thing you know, I'm the go-to sexpert for all of my friends and the queen of Smutville, and it was just really interesting because I was kind of leading a double life. Back to this long story, so-
Jennifer Tracy: Wait, we are gonna take another aside, which, the whole show can be asides. That's fine 'cause we will stay on track.
Wendy Miller: A show of asides, I like it. Just an aside, that's a good idea. Go ahead.
Jennifer Tracy: That's a good idea, one more aside. So, for my listeners, 'cause we haven't heard about your time at a seven-year orgy for work, so, let's insert that here, if we will.
Wendy Miller: Pun intended.
Jennifer Tracy: Yes.
Wendy Miller: I was head of programming at Playboy TV for seven-and-a-half years. I went in there from NBC. I used to work at Lifetime and Oxygen, and Playboy TV hired me to create programming for couples, and they needed someone who could create shows that women would wanna watch, which, you know, I kind of understood, but they needed someone who also had launched networks and marketed shows and developed shows and also wouldn't have any issues with porn, and this is a very, very short list of people, by the way. So, I took the job and basically went into Playboy TV having to learn really fast how to know about sex because I was teaching shows about how to be ... because I was producing shows about how to be great at sex, and, I mean, I was fine, but I certainly wasn't an expert. I have a hard time referring to myself as an expert now even though I absolutely am, but, it's hard. I don't know why we do that, but, yeah, so, after seven-and-a-half years of producing hundreds of hours of shows about sex-positive lifestyles and adventurous people and how to give great blowjobs and how to become a swinger and how to have a threesome, I basically became an expert, and I had to because I was the arbiter of taste for the entire network, which was scary.
Wendy Miller: Because, it was scary when I went in and I had a lot of judgment. I went in with a lot of judgment. I thought, "All these people are gross, da, da, da, da, da," and then, of course, within about a week of hanging out on the set with a bunch of swingers, I realized that they're right and we're all wrong, 'cause, basically, what do they do? They communicate with each other. They have tons of fun. They have constant sex. They're in great shape, and they're really open minded people. This is what we should all aspire to. I mean, obviously, most of us don't wanna get naked in front of 30 other people, totally get that. I don't even shop at [Loman's 00:12:01], but, I do think that there's a lot to be said for the people in that lifestyle, and the rest of us who are judging them.
Jennifer Tracy: Back, back, back, back, back, here we go.
Wendy Miller: Yep, to the story. I know, we shoulda ... sound effect. Anyway. This woman says to me ... the second woman says to me, "You need a podcast. You need to have a live show." She goes, "I work at a major studio and I wanna present you to the team to host a show," and I'm like, "What?" These are the stories: people getting discovered walking down the sidewalk. Honestly, I just went to this thing to have fun. I didn't have business cards. I wasn't there to do anything except spend a couple hours talking about sex, which is my favorite thing to do. She goes, "I'm gonna call you. I'm gonna present you to our green light committee, and then I want you to come in and meet with the studio if you're interested." "What?"
Wendy Miller: So, Jackie's husband recorded the whole event and they sent over a tape. A week later, she called me and she said, "They wanna meet you." "What?" So, I drive over to the studio. I got rockstar parking. I'm feeling like a real big shot. I go up there. I see all the posters for all of their other shows and stacks of Emmy Awards and I'm thinking, "Oh, these are really great, huge shows, but the show I wanna do is not a daytime talk show." There's that scene from the movie High Anxiety where he's at a sex conference and this guy comes in with his little kids and all of a sudden, they have to change all the language, like, "If your woo-woo is injured, you want your pee-pee ..." and you know what, I was like, "That would be like me hosting a daytime talk show." It would be completely catastrophic and stupid, more so than inherently. And so, I was like, "Eh."
Wendy Miller: Anyway, they called me, and I was there for an hour talking to them. A couple weeks later, they call me back and they said, "Yeah, you know what, we don't think that this is really the right match for us," and I was kind of relieved in a way. Then, I did something that I never do, which is, I lied, 'cause I'm the world's worst liar. My friends try to get me to lie just to watch how terrible it is. It's super awkward and awful, so I'm just always telling the truth, 'cause if you always tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything. So, I lied and I said, "Oh, oh, that's okay, 'cause I'm doing a podcast and I'm doing a live version of this thing I did at the self-help class," what is it?
Jennifer Tracy: Self-care, yeah.
Wendy Miller: So, I'm doing a live show and I'm doing ... I did the self-care thing, and she's like, "Oh my God, we have to come. We have to see it."
Jennifer Tracy: Shit, you're like, "God dammit, I'm going to have to produce this event."
Wendy Miller: "Dammit!" And, I go, "Okay, sure," so, I immediately called Jackie, and I'm like, "Jackie, I know you teach a podcasting class. I need a crash course in this shit 'cause I already promised the people at the studio I'm doing a podcast at a live show. She's like, "Calm down, I got you," and so I jump into Jackie's class. Eight weeks later, my podcast is on the air, and it was all because of a lie and because Jackie not to hire anyone smart, is basically how this whole thing worked.
Jennifer Tracy: That's so great. That is so great.
Wendy Miller: And, it's so fun! I'm having the best time ever, 'cause I wanted these jingles and I wanted it to be lighthearted and ... I'm not Sex With Emily. I'm not Dan Savage and I don't wanna be. They're already doing great. My point of view is completely different. I'm just a basic regular married suburban housewife who had to figure this out and then basically became an expert at it, and that's kind of my position. That's my lane.
Jennifer Tracy: Just so you know, there's nothing basic about you, Wendy. I would never use that word to describe you.
Wendy Miller: Aw, okay.
Jennifer Tracy: Just so we're clear. So, okay, I wanna get to the jingles 'cause it's still in my mind and I'm still peeing my pants a little bit from listening before.
Wendy Miller: Oh, I'm glad you're on a vinyl chair. I offered you a pillow but now I'm glad you're not on it, wow.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh my God. So, okay, I do wanna back up a little bit. I wanna hear about: when you started working at Playboy, how old was your child?
Wendy Miller: She was four. We were just trying to get her into ... we were just starting to interview to go to really fancy private schools for when she turned five.
Jennifer Tracy: Okay, so what was that like, going in?
Wendy Miller: You know, this is a really interesting question you just asked me. Would you ask a man that same question, how old their kids were?
Jennifer Tracy: I don't know 'cause I don't interview men and it just sounded like I farted again. That was a good one.
Wendy Miller: I can vouch for that she's not farting. No, no, but here's the thing: when I first started that job, so many people said to me, "What are you gonna tell your daughter? What are you gonna tell your kid? I worked at NBC for 13 years and nobody-"
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, you don't talk about your job to your four-year-old.
Wendy Miller: Nobody asked me to explain Suddenly Susan, but, but because now I'm an adult and I'm at this place ... and, by the way, I was the only female executive in this entire company. Do you think they asked any of the guys, "What are you gonna tell your kids?" No, that's the kind of thing when female politicians are running and they ask who paid the nanny. They don't ask the men that, so when you asked me that question, it kind of makes me laugh because, first of all, I was never asked that when I worked anywhere else, only at Playboy TV, and I don't know really understand the relevance. I think that is an inherently biased question and it's funny; when I first started, my friends at NBC said, "You know what, it's take your daughter to work day. We'll give you a desk here and you can pretend you still work at NBC and take your daughter to work at NBC." I'm like, "No, I'm okay. I'm fine. I don't take my kid to work and that didn't really matter." It's funny that a lot of people immediately ask ... a lot of people ask that question. A lot of women ask that question.
Jennifer Tracy: Well, which question?
Wendy Miller: What are you gonna tell your kids, or what did you tell your kids?
Jennifer Tracy: Okay, well, that's not what I asked, to be clear.
Wendy Miller: What did you ask, exactly?
Jennifer Tracy: I said "How old was your daughter when you started working?"
Wendy Miller: Right, I jumped ahead.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Wendy Miller: She was four, and then you kinda looked at me. You kinda gave me a look.
Jennifer Tracy: Well, no because-
Wendy Miller: Let's roll back the tape every [inaudible 00:18:05]
Jennifer Tracy: I mean, one of the themes of my show is, "How do you balance work and motherhood?" Which I wouldn't ask a dude because they don't balance anything.
Wendy Miller: They don't.
Jennifer Tracy: Which is also terribly biased of me.
Wendy Miller: But true.
Jennifer Tracy: No, I wasn't actually thinking, "What are you gonna tell your daughter?" Because I was just thinking, "How do you balance ..." and, this is whether you're at NBC or at Playboy or making your podcast, but, when you said private schools, I immediately went to ... 'cause I've been through that, as well, "Oh, you're going to interview at these schmancy private schools and they're asking you what you do for a living. That was where I was going when you said the private school thing. So, just to be clear, I mean, yeah, I don't ... I hear everything that you're saying and I do think that is a common question of, "Well, how are you going to do this and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah?" There's very much a judgment of ... whether you work at Playboy, I'm sure that adds an extra layer of maybe taboo or judgment among other fellows or other people that are asking.
Wendy Miller: Maybe.
Jennifer Tracy: Maybe. She's looking at me like I'm crazy.
Wendy Miller: Well, then I apologize.
Jennifer Tracy: You're talking to a pole dancer.
Wendy Miller: Oh, fantastic.
Jennifer Tracy: A recreational pole dancer.
Wendy Miller: Then, I apologize for assuming that you were going there. I guess I've heard it so much that I completely jumped down your throat, and that was not appropriate.
Jennifer Tracy: That's okay. You didn't jump down my throat. You were expressing a feeling and opinion based on your experience.
Wendy Miller: So, when we first started to go to the fancy schmancy private schools, I was really worried that people were gonna ask me what I did for a living, and I didn't wanna lie about it because, as I said earlier, I'm the world's worst liar, and I also didn't wanna be working somewhere that I wasn't proud of, because, really, the shows I was producing at Playboy TV were designed to keep couples sexually in sync so they're happily married. I was literally doing the most important work I'd ever done in my career at Playboy TV. It was all about keeping people happily married, and so, I didn't wanna be embarrassed about it, but I also knew that it was triggering, potentially.
Wendy Miller: So, we started to set up these appointments at these fancy stores. The first one we went to, my hairdresser had just asked me for some gay porn 'cause we always had this gay porn lying around. My backseat was filled with a bunch of leather daddy porn that he had requested, and we pulled up to, I'll just say it, Campbell Hall, very fancy school, and we had a 12:00 meeting. My husband and I were driving separately. He was with my kid, and I pull up to the front gate and the guy said, "Oh, we'll park your car for you," and I'm like, "Uh ..." and I look in the backseat and there's Fists of Fury and whatever leather daddy porn and I was like, "Can I?" And he's like, "No, no, it's gonna be in the structure. We'll park your car for you." Oh, God.
Wendy Miller: So, I give the guy the keys and I'm just hoping he doesn't look in the backseat at all the gay porn, great first impression, right? We pull into the school. We get into the place where you meet all the parents and the administrators. My husband is African American. My daughter is biracial. My husband went to University of Chicago Lab School. His parents are teachers. Honestly, we set foot in the door and all they're seeing is their diversity calendar. We sit down. They don't even say a thing to me. They turn to my husband and they say, "Why don't you tell us about you guys?" He starts talking. My husband is the most eloquent, charming, lovely guy, despite his wife, and he starts talking. His mother was a big famous teacher. He went to University of Chicago Lab School, and I don't say anything. I'm just sitting there.
Wendy Miller: It never even comes to me. They whisk away our kid. They start testing her. She's doing great. I got no problems. The second school we go to, the Buckley School, we walk in. Buckley School is five seconds from my house. We walk in; they're like, "Our neighbors are here!" Again, we sit down. They start talking to my husband. The admissions people do not ask me a thing. He's talking. He's lovely. They love him. Everybody's loving each other and I'm just sitting there with a giant smile on my face. Then, we go to Oakwood. We sit down in the admissions office and the woman says, "So, Wendy, what do you do for a living?"
Jennifer Tracy: "I'm gonna leave."
Wendy Miller: And, I'm like, "[Hamina 00:22:23], hamina, hamina, hamina ha." Do you ever wanna have one of those moments where you're talking so much that you know you're talking; you can't stop talking but you keep talking? I start basically telling them about every job I ever had in my entire life. I'm having this out-of-body experience. At one point, there's a Moreau poster on the wall behind the woman. The colors are moving around. They're literally saying to me, "Shut the fuck up." My husband is looking at me like, "Are you fucking kidding me with this?" The woman, I think, nodded off halfway through, and then, finally, I'm like, "And that's it." I don't say anything about Playboy. I say everything in my 30-year career leading up to Playboy, nothing. Here's the thing: we got accepted at Buckley. We got accepted at Campbell Hall. We didn't get into Oakwood.
Jennifer Tracy: So, I'm going to interject quickly. We went to Campbell Hall to interview several years ago. My son's now in fourth grade somewhere else, and the same thing happened to me. The woman only talked to my husband, didn't ask me a single question about myself.
Wendy Miller: I was asked nothing.
Jennifer Tracy: I was so offended. I was enraged and I was like, "We're not going there!"
Wendy Miller: I was thrilled! Are you kidding?
Jennifer Tracy: No, I know!
Wendy Miller: It was like Christmas because obviously, when I had to start talking back then, I was just like, "Blahbity, blahbity, blah," and my husband was like, "What the hell?" He doesn't even swear. He'd be like, "What the heck is wrong with you?" He doesn't swear at all.
Jennifer Tracy: He doesn't?
Wendy Miller: No, no, no, he does not swear.
Jennifer Tracy: Aw.
Wendy Miller: When things get particularly terrible, he's like, "God bless America." He's like an Osmond that I've dragged into sex clubs. It's hilarious.
Jennifer Tracy: How'd you guys meet?
Wendy Miller: Oh, we met ... we've been together for 30 years. He was dating my friend, and I like to say that 'cause it sounds really salacious, but then they broke up and I ran into him years later, but we met in Chicago at Second City.
Jennifer Tracy: You're kidding!
Wendy Miller: Yeah, we're both improvists, yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: Do you know Suzy Nakamura and Rose Abdoo?
Wendy Miller: I know Rose very well, yeah, yeah in fact, Rose left a show, and then I was cast in it to replace her, and they asked, "Oh, can you do an Audrey Meadows impersonation?" 'cause Rose does the single greatest Audrey Meadows impersonation. I'm like, "No, I can't do an Audrey Meadows impersonation," and actually, I was like, "I'm not good for this show," and I dropped out, and all those people are so super famous now, so I think I probably screwed up, but I'm not as funny as Rose Abdoo, so, I knew that was a problem, so I kind of backed up.
Jennifer Tracy: Wow, okay, so, you guys have been together for a long time.
Wendy Miller: A long time.
Jennifer Tracy: And, before you started working at playboy, had you been exposed or curious about expanding your knowledge of sex or ... do you know what I'm trying to ask? I'm not-
Wendy Miller: No, I was raised in a super sexually open house, so there's no drama around sex when I was a kid. It was at the point when sometimes my mom and dad would be like, "You guys, we wanna be alone. Here's ten bucks. Go to the pinball place and get some pizza." We're like, "Bye!" 'cause we live in downtown Chicago so it's really easy to just walk outside and go somewhere fun and it was fine, and so, I grew up with zero issues, zero judgment and zero shame around sex. It is a miracle because so many people can't say that they had that experience. I was always interested in being good at sex. I wanted to have a good game, and so, whenever I was with someone, I always tried to do my best, right, bring my A game, and so that was always interesting to me and open to me, but I never really sought it out. I didn't know any sex workers. I didn't know any people that were in that industry, but I also didn't have any weirdness about them, so, just kinda grew up in a house with no problems around sex, and so, therefore I have no problems around sex.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, and so, when you started working at Playboy and you were charged with these, basically producing and researching, producing and cultivating and curating these shows, you just dove right in.
Wendy Miller: I did dive right in, and it was really funny because I think maybe if you work at Sports Illustrated, the people who come into meet with you want to immediately show that they belong in that club. So, my first pitch meeting, this company came in. They did shows for MTV and A&E and a bunch of other things, and they were pitching a show. And, like six of 'em sit down. We're in the big conference room. This is like, my first pitch meeting at Playboy. The woman in the meeting goes, "Just so you know, I don't have any problems with DP."
Jennifer Tracy: DP?
Wendy Miller: Double penetration.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh, shit, Oh my God.
Wendy Miller: And I'm like-
Jennifer Tracy: That's the first thing she said in the meeting?
Wendy Miller: I'm like, "I'm pretty sure I just asked if you wanted a glass of water. What the hell?" It was the land of overshares, the land of overshares. People would come in and try to act as if they belonged there, and by doing so, completely act as if they did not belong there, right? They would completely mess up by trying ... it's like trying to be cool. You can't try to be cool. You don't tell people you're cool.
Jennifer Tracy: Right, 'cause they thought it was an orgy in the production office or something, I don't know. That's funny.
Wendy Miller: It's funny. Before you could even start, there, you have to have a really deep background check, so it really weeds out a lot of creepers. I mean, you can't have any blemishes on your background.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh, I'm sure, yeah.
Wendy Miller: Then, once you are there, there are really strict rules. Apparently, someone got fired for trying to have a focus group in a hot tub. I would never do that. I wasn't there when that happened. I heard that. That may or may not be true. I don't think I'm screwing up my NDA, but no, I don't think I've ever worked anywhere else where I was more protected or respected, and it's funny 'cause all day long, I would be casting shows. We would be putting people on TV and I might say things like, "Oh my God, we can't have that guy on there. He's got acne on his junk. He's got dick knee. We can't have this. We can't have that." It's all fine and it's perfect to say. You just can't go, "Oh my God, that woman has a really scary boob job and I think people are gonna be confused by that. We can't have her on the air, unlike your boobs. We can't do that."
Wendy Miller: Not like anyone would do that, but there were very, very, very strict rules. This is also where I learned when I was reading the broadcast standards of Playboy that there was zero tolerance for any portrayal of violence next to sex. Now, when you watch network TV every night, some woman is getting raped and murdered to sell Febreze, right, because violence is a placeholder for sex. If you can show sex, you don't have to show violence, so, I turn on whatever drama it is at night and I'm instantly offended because the opening scene is some naked woman splayed out and they're talking about she was just brutally raped and da, da, da, da, da. This, to me, is incredibly offensive. Having a woman who's 35 and married saying she wants to have a threesome and then having sex with her husband and someone else on camera, that is not offensive. And so, I try to explain to people why the shows we created had women with full agency, 100% consent and zero violence anywhere. You absolutely cannot have violence next to sex, and I dare you to find another network that can do that.
Jennifer Tracy: That is amazing. I'm really impressed by that and I have a whole new respect. I mean, I love Playboy and I love what they do, but now I just ratcheted it up. That's awesome.
Wendy Miller: You know, and also, there were lactation rooms. We had a female CEO at one point. This was a company that was very progressive. Hef gave millions to Planned Parenthood. People think you're working for the enemy. My feminist friends were so mad at me, like "You have betrayed us. You're working for the enemy," and I didn't wanna say to them, "I worked at Lifetime where every movie was like, 'Let's rape and murder Markie Post,' and nobody said anything," and here I am at a network where women get to be sexually adventurous, make all the calls and have full agency and everyone's mad at me, and so, that was challenging.
Jennifer Tracy: So, you have a daughter who's now a teenager?
Wendy Miller: Yeah, she's 13.
Jennifer Tracy: Anything you don't wanna answer ... but, do you guys talk about sex? You must, because that's how you were raised and she's 13. It must be sort of ... my son's nine, so it's not quite there, yet, but-
Wendy Miller: I've always let her know that if she has any questions I'm happy to answer them, and that's all you have to do. Just don't make it weird. If a kid asks you a question, just answer it using actual anatomy. Don't tell 'em too much, 'cause they don't wanna hear too much. They'll say, "Hey, what is blah, blah, blah?" "Oh, that's blah, blah, blah." "Okay," and I even said to her, I said, "Listen, you know, I'm a sexologist. I know this stuff. I realize that you're in sex ed, but if you have any questions ... "I don't wanna ask you!"
Jennifer Tracy: Of course, right.
Wendy Miller: Totally get it. I'm sure I wouldn't either, but I'm just saying I'm here and if you have any questions, I'm happy to answer them.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, that's so good. And, I agree with you so much. I mean, I've always used the proper terminology with my son from birth. "That is your penis. This is my vagina." He knows all about my period. He understands what the tampon does. There's no ... it's not ... 'cause he would ask.
Wendy Miller: The common myth is that if you educate your kids about sex, they will be sexually adventurous and make bad choices and have unwanted pregnancy and STIs. It is true, the kids who are informed make the smarter decisions. The kids who don't know any better are the ones who get knocked up at 13 when they don't want to, so it is critical for parents to educate their children or find someone else who will, because sex ed at school is really just about reproduction. It's not about consent. it's not about pleasure, and most of sex ed, girls are taught, "Don't let him have sex with you. Don't let him have sex with you. Don't let him have sex with you." We are the gatekeepers because men apparently can't control themselves so it's up to us, which is very convenient because if women get sexually assaulted, what's the first thing that happens. That's right, "What did you do?"
Wendy Miller: And, you know something I like to do with my friends? When something bad happens to a friend, just a random thing, I always ask them, "What were you wearing?" "I got a flat tire last week." "Ooh, what were you wearing?" "What?" "I bounced a check at Ralph's." "What were you wearing?" 'cause it really makes you realize that when something bad happens to you, it is not because of what you were wearing or what you did, and that's the problem, is that, as women, we're forced to be the gatekeepers and to not let men have sex with us, and then, when women are sexually abused if women are sexually abused or there's some sort of nonconsent taking place, who gets blamed? Women. And, when women come forward, who gets vilified? The woman. It's a really nice setup they have. We need to end that, yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: And, for me, one of the things I'm doing at home is raising my son to, I mean, obviously, respect women even though the other day, he told me, "I fucking don't want to!"
Wendy Miller: Wow.
Jennifer Tracy: He's nine-and-a-half.
Wendy Miller: Wow!
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, oh, yeah.
Wendy Miller: What is it? Can you give me a general idea what you asked him to do?
Jennifer Tracy: Get dressed for school. Get dressed for school.
Wendy Miller: I fucking don't want to.
Jennifer Tracy: I fucking don't want to. He's very in touch with his emotions.
Wendy Miller: Do you swear in front of your kids?
Jennifer Tracy: I have, yes. The rule, for me, at our house is ... I'm divorced, amicably. So, at my house, he can say as many curse words as he wants as long as it's not directed at me. So, I'll say ... he'll say, "That wasn't at you! I'm frustrated!" Well, okay, but ... so, now, we're getting into the nuances of what that means, but-
Wendy Miller: "Shut the fuck up, Mom."
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, that would not be okay.
Wendy Miller: "But, fuck is modifying the verb, Mom."
Jennifer Tracy: "I don't fucking want to is describing how I'm angry." I'm like, "Okay, okay, fair enough."
Wendy Miller: Interesting.
Jennifer Tracy: He's very smart. So, but I forgot what I was saying about ... oh, raising a son who tells me he doesn't fucking want to, but he started masturbating at a very young age, not knowing that it was masturbation. And then, he started asking me about it and I explained to him, and then we had that conversation, "What's masturbating? How does a boy masturbate?" And, I said, "Well, you know ..." I went through, basically, it's rubbing your penis until it feels good; you get the pleasure. He goes, "Oh, I've done that on the couch!" I was like, "Yeah." He goes, "Do you masturbate?" I was like, "Yeah, I do, in privacy," and, I'm sure some people think I'm crazy, but, for me, my number one rule always with him is if he's asking the question, he's ready to receive the answer at a level that's age-appropriate, of course. I'm not gonna get graphic or weird, but he just was, "Okay, that's cool," and then he went on to go build his Lego set or whatever it was.
Wendy Miller: That's exactly how you answer that question. I'm serious. If there are two ways to ... so, there's two ways to tell a story, right? This is slightly different, obviously. I'm gonna tell you a story the same way twice. You tell me which one like to hear, okay, fictional story: okay, so, last night, oh my gosh ... okay, last night, we went to this restaurant. Oh my God, please don't tell anyone this. Please, do not tell anyone. My husband and I were at this restaurant and this waitress is talk ... Oh my God, this waitress is talking to us. Ugh, she was really nice. Please don't tell anyone I'm telling you this. And so, we started talking to her and, oh my God, she came home with us and we had sex. Don't tell anyone! You could tell a story that way. Or, you can do this: my husband and I were at this restaurant last night. The waitress was so cute. We took her home and banged her. Which one do you want to hear?
Jennifer Tracy: Option B.
Wendy Miller: Right? Right, because, when you say something with shame in it, it gets attached, and all of a sudden ... I have a friend whose son went into her purse in the middle of the night, got out her cellphone, went down a bunch of porn sites and reached out to a bunch of cam girls, ten-year-old, reached out to a bunch of cam girls to say, "Show me a picture of this. Show me a picture of that." Ten years old, and her son did this. The next morning, she was all frazzled. She's like, "Oh my God, I'm in big trouble, da, da, da, da, da," and I said to her, "What are you doing to normalize his curiosity at sex? What are you doing to separate the shame from that, 'cause, you know, it is only natural, and right now you're punishing him for having a curiosity. Obviously, the way he went about it is not okay with your family rules, but what are you doing to let him know that's okay?" and she looked at me and she said, "Oh, Jesus, I didn't think about that."
Wendy Miller: I said, "Yeah, because if you make this ... at this age, you punish his curiosity, you're setting him up for a lifetime of trouble," so we have to be very mindful with our kids. Answer the question. Be honest. You don't have to share too much, but you just cannot attach shame to your responses. Otherwise, that's gonna be locked in and you have to uncouple that later, and it's hard.
Jennifer Tracy: Absolutely, and it usually doesn't get uncoupled, ever.
Wendy Miller: That's right.
Jennifer Tracy: It intensifies.
Wendy Miller: That's right.
Jennifer Tracy: Because, other kids that have that inserted into them are gonna magnify it when they're talking about it. It's so true.
Wendy Miller: It could lead to deviant behavior. It could lead to some really unhealthy choices, and this is all because one time someone walked into the bathtub and their kid was touching themselves and said, "Don't do that!" "What? It's my body."
Jennifer Tracy: "It's my body."
Wendy Miller: Yeah, I talked to Jennifer Lang about that, about consent, making your kids to give Aunt Betty a hug even if they don't wanna give Aunt Betty a hug? You're telling them that their body is not theirs. You gotta be really mindful of this stuff.
Jennifer Tracy: My son's doing this thing where he walks up to me and he squeezes one boob and he says, "Tit," and he thinks it's hilarious, so I'm like, "Okay," so it's become an ongoing conversation. He's since stopped going it. It was a couple weeks; he really thought it was fun and interesting and he wanted to touch my boobs, and so we've had this whole ongoing conversation in little bitty chunks 'cause, again, he doesn't have a long attention span, number one, and number two, I'm not gonna sit down and lecture him, but I get it. He's curious about breasts. I'm his mom, the person he trusts more than anyone in the world, so we've had this discussion of like ... and, I asked him, "Would you do that with a girl," make up the name of a girl at his school that doesn't exist, Susan, at school? "No, I would never do that!" But, Susan doesn't have breasts, yet. She's only ten, you know?
Jennifer Tracy: He's like, "I would never do that! You're my mom. You're my mom." I was like, "Okay, but what's the difference, there?" so we're just discussing it and talking about it and he's starting to understand, slowly, but, I mean, I don't know. I'm sure I'm fucking him up in loads of other ways, but I'm really just trying to respond to that genuine human desire that we all have, and he should know that his pleasure is normal and healthy. Wanting his body to have pleasure is normal and healthy.
Wendy Miller: Yeah, but it's okay to have boundaries and say, "This is my body and I decide who touches it just like you decide who touches your body," and I'm telling you I wish for you to not touch my body."
Jennifer Tracy: Yes, which is exactly what I did. I said, "I don't want you to touch my breasts like that," you know, and he ... "Okay, okay, mom. They're just so juicy," or something. "They're just so squishy." I'm like, "I know, I know, but, you had your time with them for two years."
Wendy Miller: That's right. "Sorry you missed all that, but it was quite great."
Jennifer Tracy: "There will be plenty of other breasts in your future." I didn't say that.
Wendy Miller: But, that's how it all starts, amazing. And, people are so afraid to educate their kids. And, listen, this is not my core competency. I don't wanna pretend like I'm a child sex educator. I have friends who are really, really good at that, and I turn to them sometimes for advice and it is important that you seek out the advice and answer the questions early because otherwise, you're setting yourself up for a lifetime of dysfunction.
Jennifer Tracy: And these kids now, they have all this access to YouTube. He came home and said, "So and so in my class was on his phone googling big hairy dicks." He's in fourth grade. I said, "Oh, did anything come up?" He said, "Oh, yeah. We were on the bus. It all came up." I'm like, "Oh my God."
Wendy Miller: Yeah, he's googling big hairy dicks and you asked him if anything came up, really? I mean, you might wanna ... I'm just saying, you might wanna [inaudible 00:42:06] followup question for that, like, understand. Listen, hey, you know-
Jennifer Tracy: Oh God, Oh my God, okay, so, I wanna make sure we get ... oh, we have plenty of time. I wanna make sure that I get to the jingles. So, can we give a little bit of preamble to the fact that you wrote jingles before?
Wendy Miller: Yeah, so when I worked at NBC, I used to write a lot of the jingles. If you watched NBC in the 90s and you saw jingles about primetime shows, must-see-TV, chances are I wrote them. I wrote a lot of them and it's been one of my favorite things to do. I'm obsessed with vintage TV and with jingles and the corny stuff, and so, when Jackie said to me, "What do you want to call your podcast?" I literally, out of the air, said, "Sex Ed The Musical." I pulled that out of the air and then I went online and I could get the URL for $3, so I knew it was valuable.
Wendy Miller: So, I locked that in, and then I thought, "Well, maybe there's some fun jingles about sex because that's something I like to do and it could be really fun to have these retro jingles about fucking." And so, I wrote a bunch of ... I stood in my office in the lobby and sang a bunch of demos into my phone, which, I am not a singer and they're terrible, but I found these singers and I sent them off to an arranger and he put them together and he sent me the arrangements and we tweaked them and then I went to his studio and had some changes in the session and then he added some instrumentation, and they're fantastic. And, the people who are singing my jingles are like the people that you hear on Coca-Cola commercials. These are like, real-
Jennifer Tracy: The real deal.
Wendy Miller: These are the real-deal professional acapella and jingle singers, so talented, so talented.
Jennifer Tracy: And so, these are for the opener to your show. Interstitially, you're going to have them. For each episode, you have a different one or ... 'cause I know you have several.
Wendy Miller: I wrote eight separate jingles, and, as I was writing them, I was thinking of recurring segments I had on the show. So, I have something called Screw Confessions where people send me their sex fails, which are the funniest stories, and so, I actually based that on an arrangement of Ave Maria from a church that I heard, so if you hear that, it's actually based on a church hymn, sorry. And then, the other ones are just jingles that I pulled out of my head that I just sang and sent over, so I have one about sex toys. I have one-
Jennifer Tracy: Could we hear maybe one or two?
Wendy Miller: Whatever you want.
Jennifer Tracy: Is that okay? Okay, yeah. Let's hear 'em.
Wendy Miller: If I play 'em this way, will you hear them?
Singers: It's not always great when you fornicate: Screw Confessions.
Wendy Miller: I had to add reverb so it'd sound like it was in a church.
Jennifer Tracy: Screw Confessions!
Wendy Miller: I like to think of my show as the Church of Sex. How's that?
Jennifer Tracy: So good. It's really good.
Wendy Miller: The Naughty Church of Sex.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh my God, I love it. Okay, so, I've had such a good time talking to you. This is awesome. I could talk to you for hours.
Wendy Miller: Oh, thank you. It's been such a pleasure.
Jennifer Tracy: Ugh, thank you for coming on the show. I'm opening up a file 'cause I couldn't print on my printer, but I have ... at the end of every episode, I ask everyone the same three questions and then I go into a lightening around of questions.
Wendy Miller: Oh, fabulous. You know, my wedding was a game show. I'm very excited about this.
Jennifer Tracy: Your wedding was a game show?
Wendy Miller: Yeah, my wedding was a game show.
Jennifer Tracy: Okay, stop. Let's hear that story.
Wendy Miller: My husband and I decided to get married, and the wedding was a game show, and if we didn't score enough points, we weren't gonna get married. And, actually, he's friends with Ira Glass, and Ira heard about it and put it on his show, and he thought it was some sort of crazy weird way to have a wedding. It made perfect sense to me, by the way, and so, yeah, our wedding was a game show.
Jennifer Tracy: Where, how?
Wendy Miller: In Chicago, where we're from.
Jennifer Tracy: Was it on film?
Wendy Miller: Yeah, oh, yeah. I shot my wedding. I had an ENG crew shoot my wedding. I'm a producer. On Beta.
Jennifer Tracy: So, what was the game?
Wendy Miller: The game was basically mostly Newlywed Game questions, and we played it straight. The night before we got married, we asked each other ten questions, and then we wrote down our answers on TV-sized game show cards. And then, during the wedding, the judge, who was also a comedy writer asked us the questions and we held up our answers and we were gonna get ten points for every question we got right, and we needed 100 points to get married. By the time we got to the bonus round, we had 20 points. Now, we had already been together for eight years before we got married and all we could muster up was 20 points. It was pathetic. The bonus question maybe was rigged, you know. Of course, it was rigged. It was an impossible question, and then when we answered that, the whole place erupted because people thought we were not gonna get married.
Jennifer Tracy: What was the question?
Wendy Miller: Oh, it was something ridiculous like, "Since you've been together, how many hours, minutes and seconds have you been apart?" I was like, "55 hours, 355 minutes, 22 seconds," something crazy, and we both held up the cards and they matched and we were like, "Yay!" and the whole place erupted and then we got married, but it was a game show, yeah. It was really fun.
Jennifer Tracy: That's really fun.
Wendy Miller: So, I'm excited about this.
Jennifer Tracy: Okay, here we go. What do you think about, Wendy, when you hear the word MILF?
Wendy Miller: Well, coming from Playboy, I think of very sexy moms.
Jennifer Tracy: Yep. And, what do you think about that, MILF, as a genre, as a name, as an acronym? Or, do you have a feeling about it?
Wendy Miller: No, I think it's actually a positive thing, but I bet a lot of people think it's a negative thing, but I think it's positive.
Jennifer Tracy: I get a mix of answers.
Wendy Miller: It's polarizing, I bet.
Jennifer Tracy: It's interesting, yeah.
Wendy Miller: I think it's a positive thing. Who wouldn't want to be hot, yeah. I'm good with that. I mean, look at you. You're gorgeous. Honestly, this is very funny; you look like someone I worked with at Playboy?
Jennifer Tracy: I do?
Wendy Miller: Yeah, you are that sexy.
Jennifer Tracy: Aw, thank you, thank you. I'll take it. What's something you've changed your mind about recently?
Wendy Miller: I've been out pitching a lot of projects, trying to sell shows, etc, and pitching ideas that I knew were very good and that people weren't getting, and I was getting very angry about it. Then, I realized that it's just because they're not there. Just because somebody doesn't get what you're pitching, they generally say no, but that doesn't mean it's not a good idea, so I learned to be more sympathetic to people who didn't understand what I was pitching about as opposed to just being mad that they don't get it. So, I changed my mind on frustration and sympathy.
Jennifer Tracy: How do you define success?
Wendy Miller: Success is having no worries in the world, because, to me, success is not about money. It's not about stuff. I've been systematically trying to get rid of all my shit. I want a smaller house. I want less stuff. I want it quieter. I just want my husband, my kid, a crossword puzzle and some gluten-free pizza. That, to me, would be success. I don't want a lot of stuff, so I don't equate success with stuff and with money and with anything except happiness, and, yeah, happiness.
Jennifer Tracy: Okay, good answers, all. Lightening round of questions.
Wendy Miller: Ding. I wish ... I have game show buzzers downstairs. You know I do.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh shit, that's amazing. Ocean or desert?
Wendy Miller: Desert?
Jennifer Tracy: Favorite junk food?
Wendy Miller: French fries.
Jennifer Tracy: Movies or Broadway show?
Wendy Miller: Movies.
Jennifer Tracy: Daytime sex or nighttime sex?
Wendy Miller: Nighttime sex.
Jennifer Tracy: Texting or talking?
Wendy Miller: Texting.
Jennifer Tracy: Cat person or dog person?
Wendy Miller: Dog person.
Jennifer Tracy: Have you ever worn a unitard?
Wendy Miller: No.
Jennifer Tracy: Shower or bathtub?
Wendy Miller: Shower.
Jennifer Tracy: Ice cream or chocolate.
Wendy Miller: Neither.
Jennifer Tracy: On a scale of 1-10, how good are you at ping pong?
Wendy Miller: 5?
Jennifer Tracy: What is your biggest pet peeve?
Wendy Miller: Bad grammar.
Jennifer Tracy: If you could-
Wendy Miller: Or people being late.
Jennifer Tracy: Push a button and have, for the ... okay, sorry, let me start over. If you could push a button and have ... I'm glad I was two minutes early, then. If you could push a button and have perfect skin for the rest of your life, but it would also give you incurable halitosis for the rest of your life, would you push it?
Wendy Miller: No, I have perfect skin.
Jennifer Tracy: I was thinking that as I said it. I was like, "Oh, she already has perfect-"
Wendy Miller: 'Cause I don't wear makeup, never wore makeup.
Jennifer Tracy: There's the farting chair.
Wendy Miller: I don't even own any makeup.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Wendy Miller: I haven't bought makeup, yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: You know what's funny about that? I put makeup on. I hardly ever wear makeup. I put makeup on to come to this. It was the only thing [crosstalk 00:50:47]
Wendy Miller: What, why?
Jennifer Tracy: I looked in the mirror and I was like, "Oh, yeah, I look pale." I just recently went platinum, and I'm like, "Oh, I should ... I guess I'll put some eyeliner on," and then I thought, "Oh, I only have this one old eyeliner, and so then I thought, "Oh, I have that old black eyeshadow," so I put way too much and I barely still have any on, but this is way more makeup than I normally [crosstalk 00:51:06] no reason.
Wendy Miller: You do have kind of a smoky eye going on.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, I was trying, but it didn't really work. If you look closely, you'll see.
Wendy Miller: I'm flattered that you decided to put makeup to come to my messy house.
Jennifer Tracy: I did. I did. I did. Okay, where am I? Superpower choice: invisibility, ability to fly or super strength?
Wendy Miller: Ability to fly.
Jennifer Tracy: Would you rather have a penis where your tailbone is, or a third eye?
Wendy Miller: Third eye. Why would I want a penis where my tailbone is? Seriously, that's a crazy question. One day if my kid walked up to me; she said, "Would you rather have a cat head with a human body or a human head with a cat body?" I was like, "What the heck, what?"
Jennifer Tracy: I might ask that on my next interview. What was your answer?
Wendy Miller: I said, "Neither, I'm allergic to cats."
Jennifer Tracy: "I'm allergic to cats!"
Wendy Miller: But, what would you do with a penis on your tailbone? Is it, like, a functional penis?
Jennifer Tracy: Functional penis, fully functional.
Wendy Miller: How do you jerk off if it's behind you? It's bad enough that you have to put on a dress and zip it up.
Jennifer Tracy: Get really creative.
Wendy Miller: Or, put on a bra. It's hard enough. All the women's clothes are designed with everything behind us. How the fuck am I gonna ... what? Plus, your pants: I'd have to get all new underwear. No.
Jennifer Tracy: Third eye.
Wendy Miller: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, okay.
Wendy Miller: You should have a third eye.
Jennifer Tracy: That'd be hot.
Wendy Miller: Right?
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Wendy Miller: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: What was the name of your first pet?
Wendy Miller: Arrow. Was a dog.
Jennifer Tracy: What was the name of the street you grew up on?
Wendy Miller: I grew up on a few streets, so I'll say State Parkway. What?
Jennifer Tracy: She said that with a grin. So, your porn name is-
Wendy Miller: Oh, my porn name is Arrow state Parkway?
Jennifer Tracy: Yes.
Wendy Miller: That's the worst porn name ever.
Jennifer Tracy: It sounds like an insurance salesman.
Wendy Miller: One of my first months at Playboy, we went to go talk to SallyAnn Salsano, who was the executive producer of Jersey Shore, and we were trying to see if she wanted to do a show with us. She didn't, and we decided we all needed Jersey Shore nicknames to go over there. So, our head of branding is a Korean woman, so she called herself The SituAsian, and so my Jersey Shore nickname was Wen-double-D, and so, I think that's better than any other nickname I've had.
Jennifer Tracy: Wen-double-D.
Wendy Miller: Wen-double-D.
Jennifer Tracy: I like that, oh my gosh. Wendy, it's been a pleasure having you on the show.
Wendy Miller: It's been so fun. Thank you for doing your show. It's really great, and I'm so grateful to be part of it.
Jennifer Tracy: Thank you. Oh, and, just real quick: so, where can people find you and find your show?
Wendy Miller: Sex Ed The Musical is available at sexedthemusical.com. It's also on iTunes. I'm the worlds worst instagrammer, but I have @sexedmusicalpodcast if you wanna see the one or two things I put up every day, nothing really much, but check out my website, sexedthemusical.com, and you can see all sorts of really funny moments from my seven-and-a-half years at Playboy TV. You can hear the podcast. You can see pictures of me that are really retouched. It's a lot of fun.
Jennifer Tracy: Thanks, Wendy.
Wendy Miller: Thank you.
Singers: It's not always great when you fornicate: Screw Confessions.
Jennifer Tracy: Thanks so much for listening, guys. I really hope you enjoyed my conversation with Wendy as much as I did. Isn't she funny? She's amazing. Head on over to milfpodcast.com. You can find the show notes to the show as well as Wendy's website, her social media handles, so you can get in touch with her and a transcript of the show. And, while you're there, please subscribe to the podcast. It's really helpful. It helps me be able to keep bringing this to you every week. I love doing it. I'm so grateful I get to do it.
Jennifer Tracy: Next week on the show, we have Jennifer Pastiloff. Jennifer is an author. She is a yoga teacher, and she is a life force. That's not what I meant. She is a life force. What I meant is she is a force of nature, and Jennifer and I have known each other for 20 years, and we've watched each other go through so many different phases of life. It really was incredible to come and sit with her and talk about where she's been and where she is now and what she's doing. So, tune into that. Jen's book is coming out June 4th, actually, On Being Human, and I can't wait. I pre-ordered mine on Amazon, so I know it's gonna come.
Jennifer Tracy: And, when you pre-order on Amazon, it actually arrives that day. They send it out before, so you're getting it before it's actually on the shelves of other bookstores, which is so awesome. And, I think you get a discount if you pre-order it. I don't know. Maybe I'm talking out of school, but I just pre-ordered another friend's book, Annie Jacobsen's book, Surprise, Kill, Vanish, and I got a 35% discount, but it doesn't matter because it's so worth it to pay for books and pay for art and music because we need more of it. I'm going off on a tangent. What's new? I love you guys. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be talking to you next week.