Katie Brown: This company, it started as me seeing a need that I thought needed to be filled. It was a very simple idea, but over the course of the last six years it's become a mission, a deep philosophical reason. I feel like this is what I'm meant to be doing, which is to create a shift in our consciousness around consumerism, the sustainability aspect of clothing, the ethical aspect of how it's manufactured. I think we need to buy less and choose well. We need to stop consuming so much.
Speaker 2: You're listening to the MILF podcast, this is the show where we talk about motherhood and sexuality with amazing women with fascinating stories to share on the joys of being a MILF. Now, here's your host, the Milfiest MILF I know, Jennifer Tracy.
Jennifer Tracy: Hey guys, welcome back to the show. This is MILF podcast, sexuality and everything in between, I'm Jennifer Tracy your host. Last night was our live show, it was so amazing you guys. I have the hiccups, I'm not drunk. I have the hiccups. It was so amazing, you guys, I am blown away by all of you and if you missed it, please come to the next one. There will be more, I loved having the live energy of the audience. The live show was amazing and just come to the next one if you missed it, because it was a great time.
Jennifer Tracy: This months give is, Every Mother Counts, as always you can go to my giving page and check them out there, make a donation there, or you can go to their page and donate directly. I mean, you're donating directly whether you go to my page or not, it's just you can click to me, through them. Anyway, it's just basically me giving them props and saying how amazing they are, and that if you're going to give your money to something, give it to them because they help mothers all over the world to achieve healthy pregnancies, healthy births, healthy postpartum, and we need so much more of that everywhere, especially in countries where it just isn't even available at all.
Jennifer Tracy: So, there's that, and today's guest is Katie Brown. Katie came to me through the world wide web, and I'm so glad she did, because A, I got to meet her and see her brilliance, although we haven't actually met in person, we did the interview online. She lives in Oregon, but she comes down to LA sometimes, and she's just brilliant. She's an entrepreneur, she's truly an entrepreneur, and she's a restaurateur, she's a clothing designer, she has a clothing line, Katie Brown LA. I was lucky enough to receive a few gifts from her, after we recorded the podcast, and I constantly tell her, because we talk on the phone now all the time, that I live in the tank top that she gave me. It's the soft, white, spaghetti strap tank top that I just, it's my favorite thing to wear. I literally wear it almost every day. I do wash it, you guys, but I only line dry it. I don't dry it because it's very soft soft soft cotton.
Jennifer Tracy: So, anyway, please enjoy my conversation with Katie. I just am in love with this woman, and we've since become really good friends, and I just love that about this process, that I get to connect with so many powerhouse women, and align with them, become friends with them, and do project with them, and talk about big ideas with them. I mean, what's better than that, really, just having that connection and community. That's what I want to build, not just for myself, but for all of you guys. So, come to the next live event, it was really fun and there will be more. There will be a lot more and bigger, and more, and other places, and I'll share more about that as I discover what it's going to be, but please enjoy my conversation with Katie.
Jennifer Tracy: Hi, Katie.
Katie Brown: Hi.
Jennifer Tracy: So happy to have you on the show, thank you so much for being here.
Katie Brown: I'm so excited to be here with you. I adore what you're doing, I think you're fabulous.
Jennifer Tracy: Thank you so much, right back at you. So tell me a little bit about your business. I want to start with that because it's so fascinating. I'm really enjoying your Instagram feed and what you do, and your messaging, but for our listeners, can you tell them about what it is that you do?
Katie Brown: The background is, I think, an interesting component of it because the idea for this company that I have now, which is called Katie Brown LA, it's a consolidated line of timeless, classic basics, that are made in Los Angeles. It came to me in this very interesting way, I was a restaurant owner, restaurateur, for many years, and when the last one, the landlord was selling it, so I knew that I wanted to do something different. I didn't want to do restaurants anymore. I was sitting outside, it was a very warm October afternoon, thinking, what do I want to do next, it's got to be entrepreneurial, I don't want to go work for somebody else, and a woman walked into the ballet school across the street wearing a striped boat neck shirt, and all of a sudden I had this revelation, which was, I've always loved that style so much, just the classic, timeless look. I didn't have a brand that I liked, so within like a 30 second period of time I thought, that's what I'm going to do next. I'm going to start a clothing line that's going to be just really high quality, classic basics for women, because I didn't have a company that I liked anymore. That was the beginning of this journey, which is now six and a half years old.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh my gosh, that's amazing. I love that moment of clarity and inspiration that's just like a lightning bolt.
Katie Brown: Yep, that's what I call it all the time, it was like a lightning bolt hit me in that moment. I was sitting outside just so focused on, what is the next chapter of my life, and I instantly knew that I would want to have it made in the US, and so I spent a year researching and writing a business plan, because I had no clue how to start a clothing line. There's nothing in my past, I'm not even a clothes nut. I'm just very casual and basic, but then half way through that year I was listening to NPR, and Rana Plaza collapsed in Bangladesh where 1100 women and children died.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh my God.
Katie Brown: They were making the fast fashion, cheap clothing for western cultures. At that moment, I had this epiphany that above and beyond this idea of creating a really good basics line, we needed to start tapping into the ethics and the sustainability aspect, and all these different components that really go into fashion that I had never thought about. That was the beginning of that aspect of this journey.
Jennifer Tracy: I love that, I love that. At the time that you had this lightning bolt experience, how old and how many kids do you have?
Katie Brown: I have two.
Jennifer Tracy: How old were they when you had this lightning bolt experience?
Katie Brown: Let's see, if was six years ago, so 13 and 9.
Jennifer Tracy: Okay, wow, so you were still really in it. I mean, you're always in it, as I'm learning. My son's almost 10 and it's like, but you're still busy.
Katie Brown: Oh yeah, definitely.
Jennifer Tracy: So how did you manage? I mean, you'd already been a restaurateur, so you'd already done it whilst being a mom. So, you had sort of the A, template, but this was a new sort of foreign experience of saying, “I'm going to start my own clothing line. I'm going to do something different”. With your manifesto in place, how did you balance that while having a teenager and basically a tween, almost a tween.
Katie Brown: It was actually, in contrast, or by contrast, very easy because I opened my first restaurant when my son, who's the older one, was two and a half. My daughter wasn't even born then. Then we opened, my best friend and I, Sarah, she's the chef, I'm the other half, we opened four restaurants in about a five year period and they were going, so we had 130 employees, five kids under the age of 10 between the two of us, it was insanity. I mean like totally crazy, crazy.
Jennifer Tracy: The restaurant business is notorious for its, just like, constant... You're constantly working, is what I've heard.
Katie Brown: Yeah, I mean, obviously if we have four locations then we have GM's in place, and we have systems in place that-
Jennifer Tracy: But even still you two are the top, so everyone's going to come to you.
Katie Brown: Yeah, it was a lot. I remember this moment when I was driving, and I really considered myself like a, this is going to sound weird, but like a stay at home mom, even though I wasn't. I was the one who got the kids up every day, took them to all doctors appointments, made all the meals, took them to preschool, all that stuff was my role because I wanted it.
Jennifer Tracy: Right.
Katie Brown: I remember I got to this point where it felt like there was a Boa Constrictor around my neck all the time. The tension was so intense, and I remember saying to myself, “Get it together, you just need to change the way you're thinking about things because you can do this, you can do more”. The reality was, I was doing too much. I learned that lesson, in retrospect. There is a limit, and I think it's really important to be cognizant of what our limits are and take care of ourself.
Jennifer Tracy: So, what did you change when you realized that? What changes did you make or what solution did you seek?
Katie Brown: It came kind of over a period of time, I would say. It took me a long time to recognize that I didn't want to be in that, what I call, Ferrari fifth gear mode all the time.
Jennifer Tracy: I love that phrase, that's so good. I'm going to use that.
Katie Brown: Please do, spread it, because I think that from first hand experience, but also just talking to all my girlfriends over the years, it's really sadly common that we as women try to do so much. Yet, I can speak for myself, feeling like I'm not doing anything as well as I could be. So, it's this constant cycle internally, and we're setting ourselves up for failure, and really missing out on some of the most rich aspects of life.
Jennifer Tracy: Absolutely, absolutely. My dog's coming in for a visit.
Katie Brown: Oh, hi doggie. That was a nice one hand movement you did, you've done that before.
Jennifer Tracy: I'm like swoop, okay, out of the frame. It's always a circus here. It's true, because I've had my own journey with exactly what you're talking about. It isn't one thing, it isn't one practice, it isn't one philosophy that helped me change that over time, it's just little adjustments in things, and learning about myself and how I process, that kind of helped me, I guess, let go of that old idea that I can, and that I have to, do everything, and that I'm a success or failure if I do or don't. It's just like no, it's just life and you know-
Katie Brown: It is, but also I think what I find really fascinating is this idea of questioning my thoughts, questioning my beliefs. When I get down on myself for not having been a certain thing with my children as I raised them... I mean, I have been a really hands on mother. I still find these areas where I'm like, “Oh my God, I didn't do that nearly well enough”. I have to force myself to step back for a moment and say, “You know what, my kids are super healthy, they're thriving, we have great family time” and that I'm learning that the thoughts I choose to feed myself are really important, and that I do have more control over my thought process than I recognized before when I was younger.
Jennifer Tracy: Yes. It's so true, it's so true, and I've noticed that also. I was just sharing today with another mom that I've recently sort of, and I don't take credit for this, but again, it's like all these little adjustments over the years, but I, lately, have been experiencing just a little less general anxiety, and a lot more ability to just kind of relax and be in the moment. I don't know if that's just a product of getting older, I'm almost 44, my son's getting older, but I also can sort of step back and say, “He's only going to be little for a few more years, then he's going to be a teenager”. Speaking of which, so now your kids are, they're 19-
Katie Brown: 19.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh my gosh, what's that like?
Katie Brown: And 15, yeah. It's a trip. My 19 is out of the house, and doing great. My daughter is almost 16 and she's just a firecracker. She is so hilarious, always has been since she was little, but it's a trip to see her blossoming into this young woman. I just stare at her. We drove to Portland two days ago for a baby shower, and she was in the backseat with her friends, and I kept looking at her in the rear view mirror and all I could see was her nose up, her eyes and everything. She was finally like, “Mom, stop looking at me, stop staring at me”. I was just marveling at this young woman that I see coming up, not my little girl anymore, but it's amazing. The journey is amazing.
Jennifer Tracy: It's just incredible, isn't it?
Katie Brown: It is.
Jennifer Tracy: There's nothing like it.
Katie Brown: Nothing like it.
Jennifer Tracy: There's really nothing like it.
Katie Brown: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: Do you have a partner? Are you married or do you have-
Katie Brown: Nope, I'm divorced from their dad.
Jennifer Tracy: You're divorced.
Katie Brown: Yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: Okay, and how long have you been a single mom?
Katie Brown: Well, 10 years.
Jennifer Tracy: Wow.
Katie Brown: We co-parent so well, we are such good friends.
Jennifer Tracy: That's so great.
Katie Brown: We still spend holidays together. We just didn't make it as a married couple, but we're really really supportive of one another.
Jennifer Tracy: That's so great.
Katie Brown: I am so grateful for that.
Jennifer Tracy: I have a very similar situation and I just thank the heavens all the time because, yeah, my ex-husbands awesome.
Katie Brown: Isn't that great?
Jennifer Tracy: He's really great, he's really great with our son, we can talk about anything, I don't cringe when the phone rings and it's him. We still make each other laugh all the time, we spend every holiday together as a family. I mean, that could change. He could get remarried, or I don't know, but I'd like to think that even if, and when, he does, or I do, or whatever, that can still exist.
Katie Brown: I think it has a lot to do with the intention you have, and it sounds like if you guys are getting along as well as you are, he has the same intention. The goal is largely, if not 100%, the well being of the children, right? Then, also, our well being. That whole saying about, we need to put the oxygen mask on ourself before we put it on our children, which is a hard concept on some level, but if we're not doing well we can't give our kids the best that we want.
Jennifer Tracy: I just killed a mosquito and I'm so proud of myself. Oh my God.
Katie Brown: Single handedly.
Jennifer Tracy: These little fuckers. Oh my God, did you see that? I was like, I'm going to get it.
Katie Brown: And you did.
Jennifer Tracy: I don't know where it went, but I know I killed it. I saw it land on the pillow.
Katie Brown: It didn't even take me that long. You were focused for about 3 seconds and then you just got it.
Jennifer Tracy: I was so determined. We have this mosquito thing... Last summer it was so bad, and I am so determined not to have it again, because my son and I were just covered in mosquito bites. It feels like the end of the world, like you know-
Katie Brown: Yeah, you're being attacked.
Jennifer Tracy: Anyway, yes, I love that you and I have that shared experience, or similar experience.
Katie Brown: Do you find that that's rare?
Jennifer Tracy: Oh God, it's so rare.
Katie Brown: So rare.
Jennifer Tracy: You're one of the few people, few single moms, that I can have that conversation with, and you have a similar experience. Most divorced women that I speak to only have terrible things to say about their ex-husbands.
Katie Brown: I know.
Jennifer Tracy: Maybe rightfully so, every situation is so different, but that is not my situation and I'm so grateful every day for it.
Katie Brown: Well and again, that kind of ties back in coincidentally to what I was talking about before, which is, the power of our thoughts. I grew up, my mother was a trainer for an LP, which is neuro linguistic programming, which is the idea of intentionally thinking, and being aware of, how you form your thoughts.
Jennifer Tracy: Yes.
Katie Brown: You know, obviously if you get married and you have kids, and then you don't stay married, something didn't work out, whatever that is. That's a personal aspect, obviously, but how amazing would it be to just still get along and raise your kid in a bubble of love and support? Your kid is going to benefit.
Jennifer Tracy: Yes.
Katie Brown: I am a major proponent of letting go of our own shit around our ex's so that we can co-parent beautifully.
Jennifer Tracy: Absolutely, absolutely. I have to say, our son is... I mean, he has normal child things that kids have, but we deal with it as a family. He's dyslexic so his dad and I got him into a specialized school. He's doing great. He has issues going back and forth because it's hard going back and forth.
Katie Brown: It's hard, I know.
Jennifer Tracy: We deal with it together as a family. I'll talk to his dad about it and be like, “You know, he's feeling this way, I just want you to know he's coming to you like this”. His dad's like, “Okay, great, thank you for letting me know”.
Katie Brown: Awesome, good for you.
Jennifer Tracy: It's so great.
Katie Brown: Good for you.
Jennifer Tracy: So, super super grateful about that. So, but back to your amazing clothing line, you're six years into this. When you were birthing this, first off, when you started this you were a solo entrepreneur, or solopreneur, whatever they call it, and you've been in a partnership with your best friend for the restaurants. What was different about starting it on your own, A, and then B, what was the process like of sourcing that and just figuring out all the business stuff, and how do you make clothes? How do you make and sell clothes?
Katie Brown: It's been what I call a straight up learning curve the entire time. I miss, deeply, the collaboration that I had with my best friend, but the cool thing is she still lives here in this town where I live, which is Eugene, Oregon, and we are each others psychological, emotional, everything crutch. We talk every day. She has her own restaurant again and she's starting a subscription box company, she's already started it, she's the best chef I've ever known. She's just amazing, so the thing is, we get to still help each other, and we just totally get one another so it's really such a blessing for me. Also, then, going into this reality of being a solo founder, the yin yang aspect of it, the two sides, I've been able to figure out exactly what I want to create which is an interesting process, right? Before, we collaborated on everything and we happened to get along really well and co-create really well.
Katie Brown: So, it's been a journey for me to figure out what I want this to be as a company. It's been very lonely in many ways, just being a solo founder, and mentor and do different things with other entrepreneurs. I really talk about that, like think about if you want to be a solo founder, how are you going to create a team and how are you going to keep your own internal fire going because it's hard.
Jennifer Tracy: How do you keep your internal fire going?
Katie Brown: This company, it started as me seeing a need that I thought needed to be filled. It was a very simple idea, but over the course of the last six years it's become a mission, a deep philosophical reason. I feel like this is what I'm meant to be doing, which is to create a shift in our consciousness around consumerism, the sustainability aspect of clothing, the ethical aspect of how it's manufactured. I think we need to buy less and choose well. We need to stop consuming so much
Jennifer Tracy: Amen. Yes.
Katie Brown: The thing is, I feel like this company, my company, could be the equivalent of what Whole Foods did for organic food. You know, because really before Whole Foods became what it did become, organic food, and slow food, and locally blah, blah, blah, was kind of the, not kind of, it was, like peripheral hippy co-op store.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, mom-and-pop. Yeah, totally.
Katie Brown: Which I love, that's why I shop all the time that way anyway.
Jennifer Tracy: I spent a lot of time, yeah exactly.
Katie Brown: That's like a slow food concept mentality, right, to be tuned in to where your product is grown, raised, sourced, manufactured, processed, and there's a massive disconnect that we are dealing with, in terms of the mindset of the consumer. The consumer holds the power, right? I mean, the consumer holds the dollar in their hand. Whatever the consumer supports, is what's going to live or die. We, as consumers, we, as women, I believe, we're at a critical crossroads here. Climate change is real, we have kids, we need to be thinking about how to address this, and I want my company to become a guiding light, a massive force, in shifting our consciousness around what we buy, and how we make those decisions.
Katie Brown: There's so many things going on right now that actually weren't when I started the company, as much as they are now, like the extended size run. 65 to 70% of women are a size 14 and over in our country, and yet they've been massively underserved, so that's now all changing. You know the whole Marie Kondo movement, where you simplify and creating a minimalistic approach to how you live. I think we deal with decision fatigue, especially as women, a lot of the time. Just too much coming at us all the time.
Jennifer Tracy: That's so true.
Katie Brown: It is, and just calming down and slowing down is important.
Jennifer Tracy: It's true, it's like speaking of wardrobe specifically, I am such a creature of habit, and I wear the same sweatpants and sweatshirt almost every day. Not the same exact, I have like two or three-
Katie Brown: A variety.
Jennifer Tracy: A variety, but I have a uniform. I have a uniform, and then I have like some nice clothes that I wear, but my closet... I have a small walk in closet, and much of it is bare in the hanging area because I just, over the last several years, I really came to realize I used to love shopping when I was in my late 20s, early 30s. I don't like going shopping. I don't like the experience of going shopping. If I do, I prefer to go to a small, private owned boutique and support local designers here, or order online, but generally, like you said, I've just toned down, because I used to have all these clothes and I wouldn't wear half of them, more than half of them.
Katie Brown: No, you know the standard is, and I've talked to thousands of women now, because I've been selling for so long, but we reach for about 15 to 20% of our closet, that's our go to. So what if you get rid of everything else and you just have the pieces you love-
Jennifer Tracy: Totally.
Katie Brown: And that's it?
Jennifer Tracy: I did that, I didn't get the Marie Kondo book and do that, but I just kind of have been doing a version of that, and I don't have clothes anymore that I... Also, it stops me... Several years ago I did this thing, my mentor was doing it, and she said, “I'm doing a year of no personal shopping”. This was like gosh, maybe eight or nine years ago, I said, “Oh, what's that?” She said, "Well, I'm not going to buy any personal items, makeup, unless it's a need, unless it's a specific need." Like, oh, I need a shirt because I don't have a shirt to go with this thing and I have to wear this outfit to this event, or something like that. I need lipstick because all my other lipsticks are used up. I need shampoo because... I did that for two years, I ended up doing that, that's what changed it for me.
Jennifer Tracy: First of all, I saved so much money. I saved so much money, because I also used it as an opportunity to calculate. I would take it and go, well, I'm thinking of buying that, well, what would I have spent? So, I tallied up what I didn't spend, that was fascinating. Then, I found that it made me, as you said, more discerning about, well, why do I need this? What is the emotions coming up that make me need this, or if I do have an actual need, what is it that I'm going to put my money in? What kind of product am I going to buy? Is it going to be a shampoo that is natural or that's made here, or is it going to be... Wow, that really just opened my mind up to something I had never really thought about as a consumer.
Katie Brown: That's called conscientious consumerism, conscientious consumerism, right? It's doing it with intention, you're paying attention.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Katie Brown: Good for you.
Jennifer Tracy: I was not before, I was not before, I really wasn't.
Katie Brown: Most are not, no. I know, most people are not.
Jennifer Tracy: It's not like I'm shouting it and saying, "I'm so great", but it just feels better to me is more of the point. It feels better to me. It's more manageable to me, and I can enjoy the process, and I can just enjoy life within the realm of the material things. So, anyway, you're getting me jazzed up, that's why I'm going on about this rant, because I'm just so excited about what you're doing, and what you're spreading and how it's helping women. I want to talk about the size issue because I think that's so fascinating. I remember, oh gosh, I'm 5'11 and probably now I weigh about maybe 150 pounds. I was a model a thousand years ago in New York, and I was 18, and I weighed 117 pounds.
Katie Brown: Oh, my gosh, yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: It still wasn't skinny enough in their eyes, and I was just like, Wow, okay. It was like, if you couldn't fit in a size 2 or a 4, there was something horribly wrong with you. All these women, these girls really, that are my height and they're like, "You need to fit into a size 2 or 4", and it's like, wow. That's the messaging, it is changing and getting better, that was 25 years ago, but it's still such an issue of very few companies are taking models, and women that have normal size bodies, and using that as their example. Some companies are, like [Glosseay 00:26:34], I don't know if you're familiar with them.
Katie Brown: I am.
Jennifer Tracy: I really love that company. Well of course you are, right, duh, because you're in the business, but like they do. So what made you aware of this and how did you decide to start implementing this? What has been the result with your company?
Katie Brown: Yeah, so, when I ordered my first line, my first launching line, I ordered a 221, meaning two times the small, two times the medium, and then half of the large. I sold out of the large first, which was an eye opener.
Jennifer Tracy: Is 221 like the industry standard for what people tell you to order when you're ordering your first?
Katie Brown: You know, I don't know. I don't know if that's the industry standard.
Jennifer Tracy: Okay, I was just curious.
Katie Brown: I think that as you become experienced in this world, the experience will lead to what my experience was, because we're talking about almost three quarters of our female society is a 14 and over. That's a substantial amount, but most lines don't go past a size 12. In the last five years, well four and a half years, is when I started actually selling the clothing once I got the whole thing completed, some big companies have come out like Dia&Co, and Universal Standard, Eloquii, so the shift is happening extremely fast.
Jennifer Tracy: Okay.
Katie Brown: There's tremendous power behind this, and it's great. The whole idea of inclusive sizing. The thing that I want to do... I haven't done my extended size run yet, because I'm in the process now of raising a round to scale my company. I'm still in the bootstrap, it is this whole time which has been intense, but I'm ready to now scale it and I have not had it yet. I just did a trunk show last week up in Portland, and I had a handful of women who were probably 14, 16, maybe an 18, and they were so excited to learn that there will at some point, soon hopefully, be the extended size run in my line because of the style of my line. It's so classic and timeless, it just speaks to women as young as 15 and as old as 80, and really focusing on comfort. Just, put on your comfortable favorite pieces and go out in your day and spend your energy on other things.
Jennifer Tracy: And feel good effortlessly.
Katie Brown: Feel good, yeah.
Jennifer Tracy: That sounds great, sign it up.
Katie Brown: That's exactly right, yes, it totally is. Once I get the extended size run completed, I'm not going to call it bust or curvy. It's just going to be sizes, women shopping alongside women. I'm not going to have any special term for the women who fall into that size category.
Jennifer Tracy: Right. For me, I think, growing up and also, again, in my 20s and post the modeling thing, that was so traumatizing for me, that I left New York and I just went running back to academia. I didn't wear makeup for I think four years. I just wore a ball cap and my North Face fleece, and I was so happy to be in the classroom. It's like, "Oh God, you guys don't know how tough it is out there, you should be like...". this is a space place, but there was a lot of shame in the female culture of young girls in high school, and then in college, if you're over a certain size, it's like so shameful to admit.
Jennifer Tracy: I remember several years ago my then husbands niece, one of them, he has this huge family. He used to be Catholic, or was raised Catholic I should say, and he comes from Louisiana. So, big family, and that was fun for me because I'm an only child so we would go down and he had all these beautiful teenage nieces, right? That was just so fun for me. I had a stepdaughter, too, through him, his first daughter, and we'd go shopping. I would take them shopping, and one of the girls was 14 and I took her shopping and she was having some body issues. Long story short, we were at J.Crew and the size 6 skirt was fitting her just fine, and she said, "No, no, no, I think I can fit the 4" and my heart just sank. I was just like, "Honey", and she ended up buying the 4.
Jennifer Tracy: I remember this so clearly, and there was like, I wasn't her mom, and it wasn't the time or the place to have... She wasn't inviting conversation, but I will say now, this is many many years ago, now that child is in college and she's thriving, and she's so happy in her body. She has worked through a lot of the things, but it was such an in your face moment of this beautiful, young, 14 year old girl just identifying with a number on the tag of a skirt, and having that define her value, and having to kind of say, "No, I have to have this size". Anyway, you talking about this reminded me of that.
Katie Brown: It's still rampant.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Katie Brown: It has not subsided. I did a trunk show fairly recently and there was a woman, I don't know maybe early 40s, who was very slender, her legs, basically like toothpicks. I mean, like no fat, no curve, anything, and she said to me, as she grabbed the inner part of her thigh, she said, "I've got a lot of flab right here". I just looked at her and I said, "You know what, you don't, you don't". I've done that now, over the last four and a half years, with so many women because I knew that that mentality within women existed, but now that I've been selling directly to women where we have trunk shows, where there's like 15, 20 women trying on clothes, everyone's commenting, the amount of self ridicule, and basically kind of a version of self hatred, non love, is staggering, staggering. It's because we're fed this old shit from the time we're little on all these ads. Have you heard of the documentary called, Embrace?
Jennifer Tracy: No, but I want to, it sounds amazing.
Katie Brown: Okay, I pass it on to every single woman I talk to, to any kind of substantial point, and I hope that your listeners will check it out. The basic premise of it is this woman in Australia who had three kids and hated her body so much that she decided to become a body builder, her name was Taryn Brumfitt, and she was on stage as a body builder, you know, what you would imagine as a body builder, and she realized she wasn't any happier. She was depriving herself of all these things, working her ass off, and so one night right before going to bed she posted a before and after on Facebook, and the before was the body builder part of her, and then the after was her sitting on a stool, a side view, with a mom body, just with nothing on. Everything is covered so it's decent, but you could see the stomach, the realities that women really experience, and it went viral. It went viral around the world. She made this documentary, and even the trailer will bring tears to your eyes, it's so powerful.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh, I can't wait, Embrace?
Katie Brown: Embrace.
Jennifer Tracy: Okay, cool, I'll check it out. That sounds amazing. It's so true, and men, I think sometimes I come off as like, Oh, men have it easy. I don't think that, I don't think that. I think men have many struggles and our young boys have struggles as well. They're different struggles, but a mans not going to come into a fashion show and squeeze his thigh and say, "Oh, I've got flab". That's just not going to happen, or even if he's got a gut, he's not going to say, "Oh, I have this gut, I'm ashamed of it", maybe there's shame or whatever, and they have body issues as well. Again, I'm not saying that men don't have... It's nothing to the degree of the pressure that we, and the messaging that we continually get through media.
Katie Brown: Yes, agreed.
Jennifer Tracy: I love that you are taking part in this movement. Tell me about the sustainability issue because that's a word we hear a lot, but I'd love to kind of dig deeper into what that actually means as far as clothing manufacturing.
Katie Brown: So, the supply chain is important. Cotton, for example, is a highly colluded crop. There is so much water that is used, but there's also so many pesticides. So, the idea of using organic cotton, sustainable fabrics, that are not laden with plastics and chemicals, and that sort of thing. For me, sustainability and ethical production also taps into the idea of producing here at home. When I had this idea, I looked at Portland, Oregon to see if there was anyone who could produce for me, and no one could at the scale that I wanted, and San Francisco was the next closest city. I don't really know San Francisco well, but I know LA very well. I was born there, and I've lived there many times. So, from my perspective, LA was the closest place that I could produce my clothing line. That idea of slow food where you tap into who grows it, slow fashion is tapping into the whole process from the fabrics that are being produced, to who's making your clothing, because it's a bit astonishing to me since I launched KBLA. There are companies who start their mission, their company, their clothing line, with the intent of making in the US, making their line in the USA, and then they end up outsourcing it to save-
Jennifer Tracy: Because of money?
Katie Brown: A couple bucks, and I just feel like all of that is backwards. We need to care more about who, and how, and why, and where, and buy less. So, the idea that the bottom line, that you want to scrape pennies off of that cost so that you can make a little bit more profit, is a problem.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah, well and it makes sense. Gosh, my mind's racing with so many things about that, but it is true. The word greed comes to mind, but that's not even really the appropriate word, it's sort of just like that fear mentality of like, if I make the best quality product, I can't mark it up so much more because my customer won't be able to afford it, then I won't have enough. Instead of, I'm going to make it with the best quality product, and give my customer the best quality product at the price point, and feel good about it, and know that they're getting a good quality, I'm still going to make some profit, I can still run my business, but I think it's that big business mentality of like, oh, you got to make millions or you're a failure. I don't know, I don't know, what do you think that is because you're a small company.
Katie Brown: Yeah, I'm a very small company. I think it's a combination of a lot of things. If you buy a shirt at Old Navy or Gap... This is my assessment, I don't have proof, maybe the CEO of these companies would argue with me about this-
Jennifer Tracy: Right, but just your experience, yeah.
Katie Brown: Quality is not at the top of their list.
Jennifer Tracy: No.
Katie Brown: The way in which their impact occurs, based on what they produce, the impact that they cause on the planet, you know, apparel is up there, some people say the second biggest polluter behind oil, but if it's not literally in that position, it is right up there. So, it's really significant, and most people don't even think about it, so when you go to Old Navy and you find T-shirts for $4.99, well if you stop and think about it, if there's even a profit being made, which there has to be because Old Navy is still around.
Jennifer Tracy: Sure.
Katie Brown: What was that person paid to make that shirt?
Jennifer Tracy: I always think that.
Katie Brown: It's easy to have the idea, out of sight, out of mind.
Jennifer Tracy: That's so interesting so, gosh, that makes so much sense. Oh, we were talking about how much someone gets paid, and forget about the child labor thing which is still an issue, think about how these people are treated in these factories and what they're earning, what they're not earning. Gosh, we've covered so much.
Katie Brown: You know, something I would like to share is on the subject of the whole level of awareness, and therefore action, around the ideas of sustainability and conscientious consumerism. I feel like, in some ways, this might even be getting more and more concentrated as a reality, but there's a lot of bad news that we get bombarded with, almost daily. If you just kind of check in to the news, it's almost endless.
Jennifer Tracy: Yeah.
Katie Brown: So, what I witnessed first hand is when I would talk to these women, face to face, at these trunk shows, and talk about the realities of the apparel world and over consumption, all of that, most of the time I would get like a glazed over look. I think that part of that is because we're saturated, and we don't know how to make a difference. So, I came up with this idea, it's kind of like a basic road map, which is, connect, inspire, educate, lead. So, that process is first, how do you connect with someone, like get them to hear what you have to say? Then you have to feel inspired, and then you've got to educate them when they're in that mindset. Then lead, because I could speak for myself, I think it's really overwhelming, most of the time, to hear about all those things that are going on around the world and to feel like I don't even know how to make a dent. I don't know how to help, but that's where I think that there's a huge opportunity to create awareness and share the wisdom, and shift the way we're doing things so that we stop taxing our planet so heavily.
Jennifer Tracy: Absolutely, and as you were saying that acronym, I don't know if you know this but it spells ciel, the acronym of what you-
Katie Brown: I did not know it.
Jennifer Tracy: It spells ciel, which in French means sky.
Katie Brown: Well, look at you, you're so smart.
Jennifer Tracy: I was like, oh. Now watch we're going to go look it up and it's like, no Jen, it doesn't spell sky in French.
Katie Brown: I love that, I'm writing it down.
Jennifer Tracy: I'm pretty sure it does, in fact I'm going to have to look it up while I'm on the thing with you because, yep it is, I was right. Okay, I did live in France for a semester so something sunk in.
Katie Brown: Okay, that was really impressive.
Jennifer Tracy: Anyway that's an interesting metaphor for what you are doing.
Katie Brown: It totally is, I love that. I'm so happy that came to you, and you said it out loud.
Jennifer Tracy: Well, okay, so, we've come to the time when I ask you the questions, which unfortunately I have to go back into the dim of the forest to grab my sheet because I left it. So, going back into the jungle.
Katie Brown: Look out for the tigers and bears, and lions.
Jennifer Tracy: Oh my. It's never a dull moment on the MILF podcast, I will tell you that, I will tell you that. Okay, but it's quiet out here for the moment, so we'll try to get through this. Too much anarchy, too much chaos. Okay, all right. What do you think about, Katie, when you hear the word MILF?
Katie Brown: I can't help but think of what I knew it to be, which is, mother I'd like to fuck, but now that I came across your podcast, and I came across you and your podcast through Jen Pastiloff, who I adore.
Jennifer Tracy: Like, me too.
Katie Brown: Yeah, she's amazing.
Jennifer Tracy: She's so incredible.
Katie Brown: Now it means something different to me because I've read your description, which is mothers who birth multiple thing essentially. So, to me, it's about connecting and talking with and extracting ideas from women who are engaging in something that means something to them, and one of these connections share their wisdom, hopefully. I think there's just a huge potential audience out there of women to listen to what you do.
Jennifer Tracy: Aw, thank you, thank you so much. I'm so glad you're a part of it. This is really... I'm just so glad to know you now.
Katie Brown: Super honored.
Jennifer Tracy: All right, what's something you've changed your mind about recently?
Katie Brown: That's actually a good one because I've said this out loud to a few people recently, that I have changed my mind about how I communicate with people about certain subjects or issues, where before I really came from a position of never wanting to hurt anyone's feelings, going through this whole psychoanalytical process, over analyzing, being concerned, and now, I changed my mind and I'm focusing on, instead, definitely coming from a place of integrity, but feeling like I'm giving myself total permission to say what I feel and what I think.
Jennifer Tracy: Hallelujah to that.
Katie Brown: It's been working really well, like I'm digging it, I'm digging it.
Jennifer Tracy: That's awesome, that's so awesome. Congratulations, that's very cool. How do you define success?
Katie Brown: I think that's kind of something that ebbs and flows and changes, but for me, ultimately, success is a balance between self care, which I very recently implemented, as of six months ago I started doing hop yoga like five days a week. That has been incredible, before that I've never been someone who has stuck with any regiment. So, that level of self care is creating shifts in me, like the ability to communicate super clearly with integrity, family time... I'm a big proponent of family dinners, so I, forever, for years, since my kids were born I have family dinners at my house where I cook a big meal, all the family that they can come over, and we all have our chaotic, lovely, beautiful experience. It's not [crosstalk 00:44:09], the kids all really benefit from it, as does everybody else.
Katie Brown: So, to me, it's a combination of self care, pursuing what is important to you in a way that future soul, career wise, or even... I was a stay at home mom for the first couple of years, and that was the hardest job. It's harder than anything else I've ever done.
Jennifer Tracy: Me too.
Katie Brown: When people talk about a career, as opposed to being a stay at home mom, as if one is better than the other in any way, shape, or form, being a stay at home mom, to me, is one of the most admirable things someone could do. Or a dad, stay at home dad, it's really challenging. I have such admiration for people who do that. I'm rambling but did I answer your question.
Jennifer Tracy: No, you totally did. You're not rambling at all.
Katie Brown: Okay.
Jennifer Tracy: It's perfect. Now, we're going to go into lightning round of quick questions.
Katie Brown: Okay.
Jennifer Tracy: Ocean or desert?
Katie Brown: Desert.
Jennifer Tracy: Favorite junk food.
Katie Brown: Doritos.
Jennifer Tracy: So good. Movies or Broadway show?
Katie Brown: Movies.
Jennifer Tracy: Daytime sex or nighttime sex?
Katie Brown: Nighttime.
Jennifer Tracy: Texting or talking?
Katie Brown: Talking.
Jennifer Tracy: That's a hard one to answer, isn't it?
Katie Brown: I love texting too, but I love talking.
Jennifer Tracy: Me too, yeah. Cat person or dog person?
Katie Brown: Dog.
Jennifer Tracy: Have you ever worn a unitard?
Katie Brown: Never.
Jennifer Tracy: Shower or bathtub?
Katie Brown: Shower.
Jennifer Tracy: Ice cream or chocolate?
Katie Brown: Ice cream.
Jennifer Tracy: On a scale of 1 to 10, how good are you at ping pong?
Katie Brown: I'd say about a six and a half.
Jennifer Tracy: What's your biggest pet peeve?
Katie Brown: Oh, my gosh, my biggest pet peeve is basically mean people.
Jennifer Tracy: If you could push a button and it would create 10 years of world peace, but it would also place a hundred year ban on all beauty products, would you push it?
Katie Brown: Yes.
Jennifer Tracy: Super power choice, invisibility, ability to fly, or super strength?
Katie Brown: Invisibility.
Jennifer Tracy: Would you rather have a penis where your tailbone is or-
Katie Brown: I heard this one and I... Oh, my God. Okay, keep going.
Jennifer Tracy: Would you rather have a penis where your tailbone is or a third eye on your forehead?
Katie Brown: A third eye.
Jennifer Tracy: Okay. What was the name of your first pet?
Katie Brown: Sparky.
Jennifer Tracy: What was the name of the street you grew up on?
Katie Brown: Hilliard Street.
Jennifer Tracy: So, your porn name is, Sparky Hilliard.
Katie Brown: I love it, AKA, AKA.
Jennifer Tracy: That's right, AKA, I love it.
Katie Brown: Sparky Hilliard.
Jennifer Tracy: Katie, thank you so much.
Katie Brown: Oh, my God, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you for what you're doing.
Jennifer Tracy: If people want to find you, or find your clothing, where can we send them? What's the website? Instagram?
Katie Brown: It's in the Instagram, Katie Brown LA.com, is the website.
Jennifer Tracy: Great. Awesome, and all of that, for you guys who are listening, will be on the show. Now it's on MILFpodcast.com, so you can go there and click it in case you're driving and you forget, you can find Katie that way. It's just such a treasure to have you, and I can't wait to see you the next time you come to LA.
Katie Brown: Yes, absolutely. Thank you.
Jennifer Tracy: Thank you guys so much for listening. I really hope you enjoyed my conversation with Katie. Join us next week as we have the live podcast episode, so for all of you guys that weren't there, you'll be able to listen in to it. It won't be quite the same experience, but you'll get to at least feel the energy and the hilarity that ensued on stage with us. Hope you guys have a wonderful weekend. I love you, keep going.